Advice needed, should I replace my H&M Duette controller

[alex_sobczuk]

I own a Duette dual controller, and as the tite states I am not sure if I should replace it with a modern dual controller.

My trains range from a 1960s tri-ang Coco, through to a 2000s Princess class so I have a varied selection of motors and ages.

I have been looking for more learned peoples take on this and have come up on differing ideas. There is a post linking to an article? that the way the Duette works means that it will damage my trains. Another post says that the setting switches, High Low, need to be set to the train being run. e.g if running the tri-ang Coco use Low resistance while anything using the more modern motors the switch is better set to High. 

So what are people thoughts and advice on this? Is it time to join the people of the modern era or should I keep going with my clunky tech that could probably put a shuttle in to space.

 

[JJ73]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - DON'T Replace it - I've had my Duette since I was about 8 yrs old & now I'm in my Mid 40's & it still works fine - I've used mine for all of my Locos - from really old Tri-Ang to Modern Hornby Locos & they all work fine!!!  😀 Here is a Link to my interesting Video telling you a bit about it & why you should keep your Lovely Duette!!!

Thank you in advance - Stay Safe

[Chrissaf]

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[The Duke 71000]

Alex,

As Jimyjames says: No don't replace the Duette if it is operating your locomotives okay. The H&M Duette was a solid piece of kit with a decent rectifier that converted 16v AC to 12v DC (track supply) properly, unlike a number of modern electronic controllers today ! 

One of the last controllers made by H&M before Hornby bought them out was a "Half Wave" single controller, this was a problem and should be avoided like the plague, as it overheats modern high quality motors.

 

The Duke 71000     

[Rana Temporia]

No way! If it's working IMO this controller is way better than anything you could replace it with. 

[ColinB]

Your Duette is fine as long as you don't buy any locos with fitted DCC or DCC with sound. Now you are going to say that you don't run DCC, but some of the locos come already chipped and some have electronics that you don't know about. The issue with the Duette is if you run a locos with any electronics in it, it will probably damage it as the regulation from a Duette is not very good. Most motors will cope with it, the electronics won't. I blew up a Bachmann decoder with my Duette. The decoder was DC compatible and it worked for a little while and then started to smoke. So the answer is, if none of your locos have any electronics in them then carry on using it. Alternatively get someone to put a large capacitor across the rectified AC inside your controller, that will cure the issue. I was going to do that to my one but the wirewound variable resister went wrong, so it is now scrap. Looking inside it did remind me of O Level Physics 50 years ago, that was the last time I saw a wirewound reostat.

[alex_sobczuk]

Well thank you all for your replys. I will hold on to it for as long as it functions.

@ColinB I was planning on buying a small loco, the wife likes the look of it, which was DCC ready. As far as I understand it can run on a DC circuit. I have other single dial Hornby controls I will look in to using the newest of those if and when I get the loco

[Jimbo1707820979]

 

One of the last controllers made by H&M before Hornby bought them out was a "Half Wave" single controller, this was a problem and should be avoided like the plague, as it overheats modern high quality motors.

 

The Duke 71000     

           I hope this was not the H&M Clipper that you are referring to.?   Please confirm.   No problems with the Clipper to date but I would like to be sure as I use it with several modern locos. Thankyou.

[Fishmanoz]

Alex, a DCC Ready loco is a DC loco to which is fitted a DCC socket with a blanking plug for DC operation.  It is no different to any of your other DC locos and can be operated from your Duette.  It only becomes a DCC loco if you remove the plug and install a DCC decoder.

[Deem]

Hello

I have acquired a used but a bargain for 13.50 Hammant & Morgan dual controller. As my knowledge is very limited, I did try look using search engine and general advice is not to use this with newer locos. My question to my fellow experienced modeler is, what are the disadvantages, what kind of damage this can cause to present loco, is it instant or slow long term decline in performance. Any advice will be much appreciated.

@ColinB your suggestion, to install "large capacitor across the rectified AC inside your controller", can you elaborate bit more on this, if you can recall, as this thread is quite a few years old. I really like this controller but I like my newer locos with, ringfield motor, 3 pole motors and 5 pole motors. I don't have any older I.E. triang or hornby X series motors.

[What About The Bee]

Deem

High Voltage Spikes. 

Reports on this very forum of up to 3x expected voltage In voltage spikes.

Sudden death as components let all the magic smoke out.

Bee

 

[ColinB]

3 hours ago, Deem said:

Hello

I have acquired a used but a bargain for 13.50 Hammant & Morgan dual controller. As my knowledge is very limited, I did try look using search engine and general advice is not to use this with newer locos. My question to my fellow experienced modeler is, what are the disadvantages, what kind of damage this can cause to present loco, is it instant or slow long term decline in performance. Any advice will be much appreciated.

@ColinB your suggestion, to install "large capacitor across the rectified AC inside your controller", can you elaborate bit more on this, if you can recall, as this thread is quite a few years old. I really like this controller but I like my newer locos with, ringfield motor, 3 pole motors and 5 pole motors. I don't have any older I.E. triang or hornby X series motors.

Trouble is I binned my one as it stopped working so I don't know the wiring. Normally you would put a large electrolytic on the output from the bridge rectifier but this might have something different because of all the different options. You should also put a 0.1 uF capacitor in parallel with it. 

[ntpntpntp]

Possibility of high voltage spikes as Bee mentioned.   Also it's a simple wire-wound resistance mat controller so the level of control you'll get very much depends on the resistance/inductance of the loco motor.  It has a "Full/Half Wave" switch which creates a very crude "pulse power" for slow but noisy running (only half of the original AC waveform is used). It has a "Hign/Low" resistance switch where the Low setting simply bypasses part of the resistance mat windings.
Great controllers for contemporary 00 and 0 locos of the 50s,60s,70s  but really not so good with more modern motors.  At the very least keep it on Full Wave and High Resistance settings if you really must use it with modern locos,  but really it's best put to one side and/or used for accessory power.     
I actually ripped out the old rectifiers and resistance mats of mine and replaced with panel mount electronic controllers in the same casing, in which guise mine serve as backup controllers.

Edited July 5 by ntpntpntp