R751 Class 37 - help choosing.

[Harlington Straker]

Hi all, this is my first post so hello and how you going?

I have recently entered the world of Hornby when I got my son the "Night Mail' train set.

This has proved to be a great introduction and have added some track exansions packs and a number of second hand carriages and vans.

He is now sold on the look of the R751 Class 37 and we are looking for a good example.

The below post has been very helpful in understanding the changes.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tri-ang-or-hornby-r751-help-30807/

I am now in a position of choosing between a model with a 6 wheel powered bogie (No. 37130 I think); or a 4 wheel powered bogie (an earlier model posibly).

I am not experienced or knowledgable yet to understand what a ringfield motor is compared to x941 motor.

I guess my question is- which model is a better purchase if both are in okay working order?  Are the earlier models more powerful?

Sorry for the questions, hope you can assist.  I looked at the above post, sheet 94a and sheet 105 before posting.

Cheers

jamie

 

[jane1707819582]

Two things come to mind Jamie.

1. your controller may not enough power to drive the 751

2 .the wheel profile could be different to today's locos and track.

Googling the different type of motors will give you a visual heads up on the motors .I do know the R751 is a power hungry model .

[Going Spare]

If one of the class 37 locos has running number 37130, it should have an X941 ringfield motor bogie (service sheet 92A) which for a newcomer to the hobby is a far better proposition than earlier versions of that class of loco which had power-hungry motors, at least one of which also carries catalogue number R751 (running number D6830) as Hornby had a frustrating habit of reusing catalogue numbers for different models.

Having said that, there are many reports that current Hornby controllers are rather 'gutless' and you may find a ringfield motor causes it to cut out.  

[Jimbo1707820979]

Hello Jamie

I have been running Class 37 locos for several years now using Hornby R8250 controllers without any real problems concerning power. So I must politely disagree  on this subject. My advice is to "suck-it-and-see".  😀  Of course, a more advanced controller is preferable but it is a question of requirements and cost.  I also run a number of power-hungry Triang locos.

[Augustus Caesar]

@JP

The 'suck it and see' advice is not really helpful here Jimbo. A number of differing circumstances could be at play and it is quite preferable to offer at least some guidnace with a target to aim for. That kind of approach could lead to damage to the member's loco and this is no good to anyone.

This reply to you is not a criticism in any way and it is duly noted you have had no issues with your setup. Maybe it would have been better left there.

The OP is a new member to the forum and seeks genuine advice re his question so hopefully we can stay away from the 4 word comment.

[Stubaggieboy]

Have a look at another manufactures class 37 if I were you totally different class, in my opinion.

[RDS]

.... another manufactures class 37 if I were you totally different class ....

 

A rather confusing choice of words for a newbie I think.

[Going Spare]

And a totally different price for a newcomer, also although largely compatible, different couplings which may cause frustration.

[RDS]

Hello Jamie and welcome to the Forum.

You have asked a genuine question and hopefully a member with experience of both alternatives that you have quoted, will be along soon to advise you regarding 4 or 6 wheel versions.  The power aspects have been covered by jane2 and Going Spare.

[Stubaggieboy]

.... another manufactures class 37 if I were you totally different class ....

 

A rather confusing choice of words for a newbie I think.

Really!!!!!

[Going Spare]

For clarity, the earlier version of Hornby's class 37 had a representation of the 6-wheel bogie but the centre 'wheels' were dummies cast in to the bogie frames whereas the later version powered by a ringfield motor has 6 wheels but still only the outer 4 are driven. Further, the 6 wheel motor bogie has traction tyres to give greater pulling power and wheels of a better profile to pass through modern points.  The motor is more easily serviced with replacement parts still fairly readily available.   

[Twintop]

I have an R751 in green livery - D6830 - bought for me circa 1966, so may well be a Triang one. 

 

The only pick-ups are on the 4 driven wheels on one bogie, so it is hesitant over pointwork. A class 31 I have from a few years later (same motor bogie) has additional pick-ups one two wheels of the unpowered bogie so is better over pointwork.

 

My Peco model D controller from about 27-28 years ago has enough power to cope.  

[Ducking Giraffe]

From my own experience the early 4-wheel powered bogie was awful, I'd avoid the R751 - I hated it, memories years of trying to get it to run properly make me shudder. As you can see from the early tri-ang service sheets there is no second pickup! A ringfield version will always run better IMHO.

 

I sold it on ebay for a suprising 10 quid and was pleased to see the back of it. Put me off class 37s for life... 

[RDS]

@Harlington Straker

Hopefully the last 3 posts above here, give you the information you have asked for.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Don't forget the Hornby Railroad class 37...

 

A modern DCC ready model.

 

[Rana Temporia]

Don't just go off the number on the loco either. I have a matt blue painted 37 130 with the earlier type of motor bogie in it's original box so they changed the finish and number before they changed the mechanism. Both bogies are incorrect for the class 37. The earlier one uses a class 31 bogie while the ringfield version uses a class 47 bogie. Personally I prefer the earlier one but the later one is easier to maintain as has already been said. Both are easy to find parts for although prices for the early one have started to rise recently. 

 

Many  parts for the class 31 type were shared with the early Hymek motor bogie which seem to be easier to find. 

 

If you are going for an older model check that it is working before you buy it from a reputable seller. There is the Hornby Railroad model which i think is based on the Lima model of the class with a newer type motor which is a more accurate version and has the correct bogie side frames. If you can find a second hand Lima one they have a Lima Ringfield motor which gets a lot of stick from some people but I quite like them. You won't get any smooth slow running but they are quite powerful if a bit noisy. Also very easy to maintain and basic so not much to go wrong. 

[Harlington Straker]

Sorry for the very late reply.

Thank you all for the informative and detailed posts.  Unfortunately the one i was looking at was sold before I could inspect it.

For a similar price we managed to obtain one from a reputable ebay seller in England that was able to post to Australia.  It was listed as working well in both directions.  I will not name names but the unit only crawled in one direction and made an oil burning smell.

It is has 37 073 on the side and has 2 six wheeled bogies. one bogie has 4 driven wheels and two ruber traction tyres (on one side only).

I am assuming this has a ringfield motor. I am looking for some info on how to clean and service the motor before proceding.  I see that sam's trains has a video showing this.

cheers

jamie

[ColinB]

I didn't see this post until now. If you are going to buy a Hornby class 37 loco, then to me the most important thing is the pickups. The issue with ringfield motors is that they pick up power only on one side of the bogie, so the front bogie will pick up power from the non geared side and the non driven bogie from the other side. If you can put an extra pickup on the trailing bogie to pick up power from both tracks it makes running so much easier, because of the traction tyres on the driven bogie you don't gain much by having pickups on both sides. The late non ringfield motors already have this, so they run better. I must admit I use Bachmann class 37 locos, they are so much better, but unfortunately so much more expensive.

[Going Spare]

Check that the motor brushes and springs are in good condition (if the brushes have worn such that the face bearing on the commutator resembles a chisel rather than being flat, that could be a reason why the loco runs better in one direction), clean the treads of all non-tyred wheels on both bogies, check the cleanliness of the drive gears and all the axles on both bogies, lubricate with a very small amount of model oil all axle bearings, the drive gear spindles and teeth, and the motor shaft where it passes through the metal casing and the plastic frontplate.  Check that the traction tyres have not glazed and still give good grip to both the wheel and the rail.

It the brushes are worn down, the slots between the three commutator segments will probably also need cleaning carefully with a pin to remove the carbon deposits.  This will mean removing the plastic faceplate.  Service sheets 92A and 105 illustrate chassis and motor components: these are downloadable from lendonsmodelshop.co.uk.  

[The son of Triangman]

 

 

Don't listen to rubbish about the older Tri-ang power bogie being duff, if they are in good condition and looked after they are superb runners.  I have rebuilt and serviced thousands of them over the years and they are great pieces of British miniature engineering.  Later versions of this loco had bogie pickups as well.

 

Bearing in mind both locos are collectors items, I would go for the ringfield loco as it has industry standard code 100 wheelsets which should run on most mainstream manufacturers track and uses less power.  The earlier class 37 didn't get code 100 wheelsets until December 1967.

 

Spare parts and loco bodies are readily available for both locos.

 

Make sure the ringfield motored loco has had a proper service and has new brushes and brush springs, also make sure it has been lubricated during the service.  A good model shop will do this.

 

The Bachmann 37 is highly detailed but suffers from fragile parts, the buffer son early examples were plastic and easy to break for instance, they are also an expensive model.

 

 

[The son of Triangman]

 

This is the earlier Tri-ang class 31 and class 37 power bogie

 

[Chrissaf]

 

Yes these bogies were average in the 60's that is why they were soon replaced in the early 70's with the better ringfield units, They aren't and never were 'superb runners' even from new. But to compare early Triang to modern equivalents is like comparing a 1960's car to a modern day car. I have still got all my old Triang locos but I don't look at them through rose tinted spectacles. 

 

The reply above was StuBaggyBoys reply to M.R. The original was malformed.

[The son of Triangman]

In good fettle the old Tri-ang power units take some beating and I will stand by that. 

 

Note I said in good Fettle.  I have several examples that are lovely strong smooth if somewhat noisy runners.

 

Remember the basic Tri-ang design was used on a lot of other locos such as the budd railcar, transcontinental range,  EM2, DMU, EMU, Hymek and who could forget the pocket rocket that was the diesel Dock shunter.  Hardly the short life span indicated.

 

In 1978 Hornby replaced the Tri-ang power bogie with a ringfield motor.  This was nothing to do with running qualities, but was a cost saving exercise by Hornby (DCM) which sought to cut production costs as it was in financial troubles.

 

Tri-ang in co-operation with an overseas manufacturer had developed a successful ringfield motor in it's dying days, this was put to further use in 1973 in the Black five, 9F and Britannia class models, 1974 saw the introduction of the ringfield powered class 47.  Hornby (DCM) wanted to cut costs so development of a cheaper ringfield design went ahead.

 

Resulting in the remotored class 37, introduction of class 25 and 29 and remotored hymek.

[The son of Triangman]

The most troublesome model from Margate was the 2-6-4 4P tank engine.  I spoke to several workers at the old factory during the big open day, they said the 4P gave the designers and production a lot of trouble, it wasn't much loved by the workers.

[The son of Triangman]

As an extra bit of info about troublesome items. The most troublesome model from Margate was the 2-6-4 4P tank engine.  I spoke to several ex workers at the old factory during the big open day, they said the 4P gave the designers and production a lot of trouble, it wasn't much loved by the workers.

 

If you want further proof of DCM cost cutting look at the 0-4-0 holden tank loco introduced in 1978 with it's Johnson 111 scalextric type can motor or the 1974 withdrawal of smoke units from the range until the 2800 class came along.  The cheap to make R.070 turntable introduced in 1977 and still with us today.