Chrissaf Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Ray,you are not the first to ask this question; dcc ready only means it has a socket for you to fit a decoder, dcc fitted means a decoder is already installed. So you need to install a decoder first before being able to use it under dcc control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Will my new dcc ready trains from HoRnby work without a decoder chip fitted or do I need to fit chips first.I have tried the default settings 3 but this still does not work, any ideas of what I am does wrong, I have the HoRnby elite digital controller with a third track layout and a junction going of for programming. I have many dcc trains to test due to flooding just before the shutdown, any ideas. regards ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Just to expand on what 37L has written in his reply. Will my new 'DCC Ready' trains from Hornby work without a decoder chip fitted or do I need to fit chips first. As 37L has stated, 'DCC Ready' means that the loco has been equipped at the factory with a socket to make the loco ready to accept a plug in DCC decoder. Out of the factory the loco has a 'DC Bypass' circuit board plugged into this socket, commonly termed a 'Blanking Plate'. This means that a 'DCC Ready' locomotive is a DC Analogue loco and not a Digital loco until such time as the 'Blanking Plate' is replaced with a plug in DCC decoder. This means that a 'DCC Ready' loco will only work with a DC Analogue controller. I have tried the default settings 3 but this still does not work, any ideas of what I am does wrong, Default setting 3 means 'Digital DCC Address 0003'. Only a 'DCC Fitted' loco [a loco with a DCC decoder fitted] will respond to the DCC Address 0003. This assumes that the decoder has not been re-addressed and still has the factory default 0003 address configured in it. Did you hear the locomotive buzzing when you tried Address 0003, if you did, then that is your DCC track voltage starting to damage your loco motor [see further below]. If there was some buzzing, but now the buzzing has stopped, then it is too late and you have burnt out the motor of your expensive loco. I have the Hornby Elite digital controller with a third track layout and a junction going of for programming. I strongly advise that you do not use a 'junction' off the main layout for 'programming'. To minimise problems and errors, the 'programming track' needs to be totally physically and electrically isolated. If you accidentally electrically bridge the 'PROG' output of the Elite to the 'TRACK' output of the Elite [which you could easily do by using a layout junction] then you will damage the Elite PROG output ... guaranteed. Even if 'Insulated Rail Joiners' are used for the 'junction' track connection. The insulated gaps can be bridged by the metal wheels of any rolling stock moved across the track joint. I have many DCC trains to test due to flooding just before the shutdown Do not place 'DCC Ready' locos on your Elite powered track if they do not have DCC Decoders fitted. Applying the DCC track voltage directly to the locomotive motor, will heat up the motor and damage it in a very short while. The Elite controller has no capability built into it for DC Ready [DC Analogue] locomotive support. As an analogy, it is a bit like filling up the fuel tank in your Diesel car with unleaded Petrol ... an expensive mistake to make. DC voltage and DCC voltages are completely different power [fuel] sources. TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button..See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Ray - You have received two answers to your problems - but I would seriously advise you to do some reading as to how DCC works - as Chris's car petrol/diesel example suggests - you could make some really costly mistakes. Understanding the basics of DCC is not rocket science. You aso mention you have "many" DCC loco's to test due to flooding - have they been under water?? BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivor_williams Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Yes,most of the dcc ready have been under water,but have now been drying out. Any ideas should I test them with putting in a new decoder and would this destroy the decoder or train.thank you all for you replies, very much appreciated. just one further question would it be better to test the dcc on an R8213 digital controller or an old analog controller (RP.53 power controller) or on a single layout or with the piece of single track with roller and electric connection Which is available. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 You can't test DCC on an analogue controller. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 What you need to do is do a continuity check between pins ! and 8, and 4 and 5, just in case water has caused a short circuit between track voltage and motor feed. If there is a short on these pins it will blow up the decoder. I always check continuity between adjacent pins they should all be open circuit, except pins 1 and 5, which should read the motor impedance/resistance. Also with nothing in the 8 pin socket check there is no connection between pins 1 and track and pin 5 and track. I have had locos where Hornby have created a short in production.between pins, hence why I check, it is rare though. If you ever buy sound decoders it is always a good idea to buy a LaisDCC decoder, to test before you put the sound decoder in, the LaisDCC decoder is cheap (about £10) and better to blow up, than an expensive sound decoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 If the locos have fully dried out and were never powered up when wet or even damp then they should be OK.I would pull the decoders and install a blanking plate or jumper wires then check out DC operation.If all is well and they were working OK before the flood then chances are they will work now.If you have a decoder test rig then a quick check of each decoder before reinstallation is advised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 In summary, once you've ensured all locos are dried out and clean: - First check all locos are working well on a DC layout with a blanking plug and DC power supply before getting to fitting decoders and using your Elite controller. Any DC controller will do. - Having confirmed on DC, remove the blanking plug and do Colin's continuity testing. Some Hornby wiring mistakes only appear with a decoder fitted such that the loco will be fine on DC with blanking plug but not DCC with decoder. This step is not essential and Colin tells you the mistakes are rare. However, if a mistake is present and you don't test, you may blow up your decoder. - Now fit your decoders. If the decoders are new, the address will be 03 and the Elite should run them on that address. Once each is confirmed on 03, change its address so you can put another on the track to test on 03, then change it too ready for the third, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivor_williams Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Hi all,thank you very much for all your information, its good to know an old timer like he can get good inf from others, hopefully I can get started soon And not lose too many trains.regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 HiHaving read the above replies IMO there seems to be some confusion as to what you have and what you need to do?You say the water damaged locos are all DCC Ready. If so, then they are for use on DC power only, NOT DCC. To test them either use a DC train controller or if you do not have one then obtain a new PP3 9volt battery and use that across the pick up wheels of the loco or feed a bit of track from the battery and place the loco on the track. Of course there will not be any speed control available with a PP3 battery, but it does test that the loco is working. Reversing the battery connections to the rails or wheels will cause the loco to run the opposite way too. As the locos have been wet, I would also lightly lubricate all moving parts and pivots. Only use lubrication oil sold specifically for model railway use. Never use spray types of lubricant such as WD40 or thicker 3 in 1 oil types. Remember the lubrication Golden Rule of.... "If you can see it (the oil) its probably too much!" If you accidently apply too much oil use a piece or tissue or kitchen paper to mop up the excess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivor_williams Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Thank you, do you know what is the decoder number for the blank,is it R3286-06. regards ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 R3286 is the stock code for a Hornby Class 40 Diesel locomotive factory fitted with a Class 40 TTS sound decoder. Hornby do not sell 'Blank' TTS sound decoders only sound decoders that have speciifed sound files pre-loaded onto them. But somehow, I don't think this is actually what you meant by the 'Blank' term. To be honest, I'm really not totally sure what you actually mean at all. Hornby's very basic 8 pin four function motor control decoder (non Sound) is the R8249. If by chance you mean an 8 pin 'Blanking Plate' that replaces a decoder in a DCC Ready locomotive to make it totally Analogue DC. Then there are diferent types for different locos. But as far as just basic motor control is concerned for a Hornby 8 pin decoder socket i.e no specific loco lighting support. Then these are in short supply from all the normal retailers and suppliers. An example of a basic Hornby 8 pin Blanking Plate is stock code X9255Here is one [presently showing 8 in stock] made by LaisDCC TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button. See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37lover Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Ivor Williams, If you are refering to a blanking plug to insert after removing a decoder then they are quite hard to find. May I suggest you search for 8 pin blanking plug and you may get a link to cm3models.co.uk that have such a plug in stock Chrissaf added to his reply whilst I was typing my response, we have linked to the same "seller". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivor_williams Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Here is a photo of the decoder chip I am asking about. ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 8 pin dc header on EBay if you want onehttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LaisDcc-8-Pin-Blanking-plate-DCC-DC-Part-No-890098/224025775899?epid=1476488745&hash=item3428fa0f1b:g:thEAAOSwXOBbhYnP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Colin, that is exactly the same page as both 37L and myself have already indicated. Your link is a duplication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Ivor,Your image upload failed. If you used 'copy and paste' then that method does not work in this forum. Read TIP 8 in my TIPs page for a 'How to add an image' guide.https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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