hosh Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 On page 34 of the PDF for the Elite we are told how to make adjustments to speed tables. I see nowhere in the PDF telling us to enable the user defined speed table nor how to do that.What happens if one tries to access CV 29 (to enable/disable the user defined speed table) on the Elite? Did a search for "CV29" in the PDF and came up with nothing???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 CV29 Value 50Reverse Direction set to OFF28/128 speed steps set to ONDC Operation set to OffRailcom set to OFFComplex Speed Curve set to ONLong Loco Address set to ON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Try using the calculator with explanations on this link (with thanks to whoever posted it somewhere else here a couple of months ago):http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosh Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 So this is a well known issue with the Elite's literature?I know how to do the binary stuff.Not very user friendly. I know it's efficient storage of data but I reckon 8 seperate CVs should be used instead. Are all the other CVs used up or something?I can't understand why Hornby are yet to update that PDF - any reason? Are they afraid it will lead to too many problems? They should either add this info or get rid of the speed table section altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The NMRA decides which CVs are used for what purpose. Nothing to do with Hornby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosh Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 Time to abandon the NMRA in that case.This is what happens when "experts", who think everyone knows what they know, get a say in things.If the NMRA is controlled by such individuals that fail to see things from a noobs point of view then they're not worth their weight in salt.It seems many manufacturers freelance to some degree with this sort of thing.Apart from advertising "NMRA compliant", what's wrong with a company like Hornby going their own way with something like this.CV 29 is a farce. Even for anyone that understands the binary addition thing, it is ludicrous stuffing about just to change 1 single switch from on to off! Especially when something as fundamental as direction is in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Which manufacturers 'freelance' CV29? What's wrong with Hornby going their own way? They tried that with Zero 1 which wasn't compatible with the Airfix MTC. It failed. The first DCC decoder Hornby made wasn't NMRA compliant. It was scrapped. The less said about the Select the better.CV29 is quite easy to understand and very simple to operate. I don't see your problem. My beef with the NMRA is that they allow manufacturers to use the same CVs for different uses. They are supposed to set Standards. That and CV5 and CV6 being the wrong way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I haven't needed a CV since I retired! Seriously, though, how can ordinary people (excluding me) be expected to deal with DCC? I have hard copies of Hornby's "Elite Unit Operators Manual (49 pages!) and "RailMaster - PC Model Railway Control System For the Elite Controller (81 pages!). I had to teach myself binary maths some years ago for machine code programming (and actually produced an official "Atari" game), but it's so frustrating, even for a reasonabaly intelligent oldish codger like me, to master a computerised model railway layout. It has taken me ages but fortunately I have a "won't be defeated" attitude and expect to win in the end. Wonderful system but what a shame it's sooooooo difficult. You can easily end up not actually running your railway anywhere near as much as getting it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 there are all sorts of good things about having standard approaches. for example this forum wouldn't be possible without standards!!various third party developers are able to produce interesting products - hw and sw - that expand the range of capabilities available for model rail. For example jmri is a free piece of software for model train controller developed to meet the standards and able to be used with a whole range of kit. railmaster is, I think, something that was developed by another company originally and then bought./licensed/marketed/?? by hornby. having said that.... it is not that easy to programme some of the CVs.... the doco on the 8245 for example is not all that clear to me.An easy way forward, if you have an elite, is to use railmaster or jmri or ..... as the front-end for programming the CVs.I am not that familiar with railmaster. I do know that jmri has a full menu driven system for programming the 8245 (I wrote it) and also the 8215 and 8249.even if mental arithmetic in binary is your ting some help to record and store the info is always a help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 hosh said:Time to abandon the NMRA in that case.This is what happens when "experts", who think everyone knows what they know, get a say in things.If the NMRA is controlled by such individuals that fail to see things from a noobs point of view then they're not worth their weight in salt.It seems many manufacturers freelance to some degree with this sort of thing.Apart from advertising "NMRA compliant", what's wrong with a company like Hornby going their own way with something like this.CV 29 is a farce. Even for anyone that understands the binary addition thing, it is ludicrous stuffing about just to change 1 single switch from on to off! Especially when something as fundamental as direction is in there.Hosh, I too am very much against abandoning NMRA standards. For a start, it gives us the flexibility to take advanatage of the very best implementationss of DCC using it, Hornby or not.Concerning, the Elite literature, have you read the Elite V1.4 Update Supplement pdf? It's one of the files that comes with the downloaded update software - it's hiding in the Elite V1.4 Update directory which is in the downloaded zip file. Pages 24-29 cover CV29 with turning speed tables on and off at the top of p25. And no, you don't have to understand binary to do it - it's all in the V1.4 menu system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosh Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Thanks for that. And from v1.4 -"All decoders have a ‘special’ CV that allows the configuration of a range of basicdecoder parameters. This is CV29. The Elite has a built in programming menuthat allows very easy programming of these parameters without the need for‘binary’ calculations to work out the ‘decimal’ values required to set the desiredparameters within CV29."So finally in the 4th version Hornby get it right!I take back what I said about NRMA - there is no reason CV29 cannot be handled in the way Hornby have ultimately done it here so the end user isn't bothered with bit calculations.But let's not forget that Hornby have released the Elite -a) by telling us how to manipuilate the speed table, but not that you actually need to turn it on.b)Failed to tell anyone how to turn it on.Oh, and Railmaster is not Railcom enabled either.All pretty slack in my opinion.Btw, I see some Hornby Locos come with sound. Do they plan to sell sound decoders anywhere in the foreseeable future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Hosh, just did a forum search on Loksound and found an HCC post refering people to the Loksound info in Downloads, Instruction Manuals Sound Locos section. IT would seem they are pretty committed to Loksound not developing their own.But interestingly, I also found this post from Phil_Spiegel which I'm sure will interest you concerning speed tables and setting max speed. He says you can do it:IFF (If and only IF) the DECODER fitted supports it: CV5 is top speed, and the alternative supported by some (higher spec) decoders is to define your own speed table.The CHEAP Hornby Decoder does NOT support CV5 ( which I find VERY surprising since experience shows it to be the most important CV - essential for young children too)The SAPHIRE DECODER supports CV5 AND the alternative option of your own custom speed table.FACTORY FITTED locos: SOUND fitted locos use ESU Loksound Decoders, and support bothCV5 and the custom speed table.SILENT_PRE_FITTED locos .... 'anyones guess' ... which is why many people prefer not to buy pre-fitted: Eg The Pendolino used a 'unique' decoder, at least on initial release. I believe later locos might use the basic decoder ,,, ie no CV5Report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 In the beginning...decoders made a buzzing noise. The frequency was changed so now the frequency is too high for the human ear to hear. Therefore - silent decoders. Might still drive your dog mad though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I suspect even the buzzing ones would have upset the dogs. This is because the square wave pulse width modulated DCC signal and motor drive output include high frequency harmonics above our hearing but in the dogs' range. In fact, a perfect square wave has harmonics going all the way to infinity - courtesy of Mr Fourier (sorry, couldn't resist putting in more abstruse maths). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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