Loco progamming problems on Elite controller

[Michael-800738]

I can't programme new locos via my Elite controller any more. Hornby support wanted it back to look at it and advised me that it was unrepairable (sent it back as it was). Turns out that the processor is faulty.

Does anyone know of a repairer that is familiar with this problem that I can send it to for repair? I have seen other threads where people have had a similar problem with their Elites so there may be a fix.

Mike

[96RAF]

If they say the MCU processor is faulty then even if you could find one and get someone to replace it you will still be stuck as Hornby will not release the code to reprogram the processor (circled in red).

Note that the basic installation code for the processor is totally different from the operating firmware, which you can download and update at home.

If it is just the Programming output then you can get hold of the tiny chips but replacing them is a very skilled job.

[ColinB]

If the processor was at fault then nothing would work. I am assuming that you can still run trains on DCC. It may be that the output port which drives the programming has a fault on it, so either the port has blown or it might be that there is a soldered connection that is not made. Have you thought of sending it to Lendons, they advertise that they can fix these things. Now if you have the know how and Hornby haven't locked their code, which I doubt. If you know a PIC expert they can probably read the code but you probably don't need to. You can reprogram these these things over USB so it is possible to just reprogram a new MCU with the new code with the upgrade code, if Hornby use the native bootloader (it is native to most PICs). Talk to Lendons, I suspect they might be able to fix it. Hornby probably didn't think it was worth fixing. The MCU is going to be a PIC I suspect, Hornby don't make enough to use anything else.

[ColinB]

Incidentally if you want to know how to remove those small chips, what you do is use a heat gun over the chip to melt the solder. The way we used to do it then was to use a small sucker tool to pull it off. When I did it with the input diodes on a Loksound unit, the sucker was too big, so I heated the area around the chip and then flipped it off with a small screwdriver. Putting it back is the big issue, I equated it to soldering sand.

[96RAF]

@colin

The Elite MCU PIC code is not readable (at least not with my kit, which I use to update Select and Hornby acc decoders). I have tried to milk a good Elite MCU to recover a duff Elite and I couldn’t. I aware very savvy with installing hex files to PICs to update them. Also you need the correct code to match the PIC variant.

As you should know installing the base device code is not the same as installing an update to the operating code.

With regard to pulling those 8-legged 3mm square programming circuit chips, the top row of four is common but the bottom row are individual and getting them off has to be done without destroying the tiny PCB traces. soldering them in with a hot air gun and suitable solder paste was fairly easy but exact alignment relied upon the traces being undamaged. Even then using a hot air gun I have ‘dispersed’ other nearby SMDs resulting in failure. I found it easier to use a 0.5mm tip on my Antex iron and to solder each leg under a magnifier.

Best of luck if you can do it.

The Prog chip part numbers are on my web site Elite Teardown page.

[ColinB]

I will say nothing more, as I said give it to Lendons to see if they can fix it. As to removing SMD devices, surprisingly there are people that can do it. I know several people that can do it and yes you use a heat gun very carefully. Incidentally what kit do you use? I have a MPLAB IC3 which is a background debug device and is used to step through programs on virtually any PIC device. It can also upload data and reprogram the device.

[96RAF]

I use a PICKit3 Colin - DIY version of yours and MPLab10 for programming.

And this to blow my SMDs about.

[ColinB]

I assume Lendons has a tame Electronics person that can do this sort of thing. We had a guy at work that could desolder a 160 pin package and hand solder a replacement. I imagine with Hornby if it is not a quick fix then it is economically nonviable. I spent about a week trying to figure out what was wrong with someone's loco the other week. Fortunately for the owner, I don't charge for my labour, or else it would have been cheaper to buy two new ones from Hornby. As it was, it worked out that somebody previously had glued the wheel based gear back together badly, which explained the jerky running. If I had replaced the wheels first it would have saved a lot of time. So probably if they can't fix it in a hour or two then it is deemed not fixable. Where they go wrong, is not to offer you a new one at say half price or a discount, like the sound decoder manufacturers do with their products.

[96RAF]

Believe me Colin I have suggested all these refurb option schemes. One of my suggestions was to collect U/S units and batch them out to a specialist repairer who would have an agreement with Hornby for access to parts information, wiring schematics, code, etc.

A fairly simple and sensible suggestion that would run in concert with a discounted replacement service using these refurbed units as stock.

[ColinB]

From my days working for a really small firm, usually the most expensive parts of any piece of equipment are the switches, box and display. So they don't even need to repair the boards, just replace the main board with a new one. I know what you mean though, it is probably too much effort to refurb them.

[Michael-800738]

Thanks for your replies guys. I was surprised that Hornby didn't just replace the whole main PCB. Elites aren't cheap and it seems that they are just passing the commercial risk around faults onto their customers. I think that they need to sort out a viable support policy going forward.

Anyway I've gone for a Railmaster/eLink combo using my duff Elite to power the locos. Problem solved but at a cost. Railmaster seems to be a big upgrade though.

[BigNoj]

I had the same problem and received the following reply from Customer Care,

“Thank you for your reply, your Elite has suffered a power failure of the read/write circuit. Sadly this is beyond repair. Is the controller still within the warranty period ?”

So after 9 years of occasional use I have bought the up to date Digikeijs DR5000, just a shame I can’t use Railmaster having recently updated to Pro.

[ColinB]

So BigNoj did your Elite completely fail, or was it just the programming output. I suspect if Hornby can't fix it in an hour they write it off.

[96RAF]

As previously advised ask Lendons if they can fix a failed Prog output.

I still haven’t gotten round to asking them about my pile of duff units.

[BigNoj]

ColinB

it works fine except for the programming. I’ve put it on the pile of duff Hornby electronics including their accessory decoders, loco decoders, point motors etc.

[ColinB]

In that case it is probably the buffer that sits between the processor and the programming output. I suspect someone like Lendons can probably fix it. It depends whether it has taken out the output port on the main processor, but I doubt it, PICs are pretty robust devices. If mine ever goes wrong I will probably let you know exactly what it is.