Lack of quality control by retailers

[Lyd 85B]

In the last few weeks I have purchased, by mail order, three new steam locos (each from a different manufacturer and smaller retailer). The first was electrically dead and was replaced by another on which the underside detail had not been properly fitted, requiring dismantling, removal of the glue, and refitting; the second ran like a drunken duck, with incorrectly quartered drive wheels; the last would not run because a piston rod was corroded onto the slide rails. All could have been found before despatch, if properly inspected. I can already hear the cries of anguish from the trade, but the time, cost and hassle for buyer and seller, in emails, telephone calls, re-packing and re-postage, could largely be avoided. The only winners are Royal Mail and the other carriers.

[atom3624]

That is very annoying.

The responsibility is really that of the manufacturer I think - were they all Hornby?

I feel your frustration, and also agree that as 'agents' representing the manufacturer a certain level of responsibility is taken by the distributor aka shop.

Having said that, I believe most WILL check out a locomotive, but only at the request of the purchaser, after payment is made. This is a sort of guaranteed payment / disclaimer I know, but many have that same fear - of breaking something before it reaches final destination!

Summary: Very annoying and totally agreed. If they take it back and replace FoC then I suppose that is acceptable-enough practice.

We have observed an increasing number of people complaining of similar issues in the last few years, particularly of recent-manufacture, super detail locomotives.

Al.

[threelink]

Such lack of quality control and pre-sale inspection is simply appalling. In another post I mentioned that I had a stall at a train fair last week to dispose of surplus items. It was all second hand but thoroughly inspected beforehand and I had a test track with a couple of torch batteries to demonstrate to buyers that their purchases would work. If I can do it at that level then manufacturers and retailers should jolly well be able to do it.

[Bulleidboy]

It is a difficult one. I very recently received my Hornby Dublo Merchant Navy Class loco. It was superbly packed etc. Personally, I would be a bit miffed if it looked as though someone had opened the box (tearing the packaging or box) before me. I always open and remove loco's very carefully. With the fine detail fitted nowadays I think it is inevitable that the odd step or handrail may come adrift - usually an easy repair. I can imagine how you feel - you wait months for something to arrive, and then it's damaged. I have to say that, may be I have been lucky, but I have never had a faulty loco.

[96RAF]

The quality inspection and pre-sale testing has to take place in the factory before packing.

There should be no need for Hornby in UK or any retailer to unpack a model, thereby breaking the packing seals, unless requested by the purchaser.

[37lover]

Atom3624,

The responsibility is really that of the manufacturer I think - were they all Hornby?

The OP did say in his second sentence "each from a different manufacturer" so he was generalising and not targeting Hornby.

[ColinB]

You didn't say whether they were new or second hand, but looking at your post I again I assume they are new. I buy lots of new locos and I must admit they have all been perfect. Occasionally the separately fitted parts fall off and with Dapol locos for some reason one buffer always seems to fall off. Now with second hand that is a different story, sometimes the loco is perfect, obviously very rarely run, but some you think "didn't you notice that". Some secondhand Dealers just buy stuff in and resell it without checking it much. If you look at some of the listings on EBay quite often the valve gear is fitted wrong, but obviously the Seller doesn't realise as they have never seen one with it fitted properly. I do know Bure Valley tests all the locos they send out, as they phoned me up once to cancel the order as there was a fault when they tested it and it was the last one. I buy a lot from them, not only do they test them but I know my money is going to a good cause.

[JJ73]

I have never had any problems from my Local retailer / Model shop - the only time when I bought a 'dodgy' Loco was a few yrs ago when I went to C'feild Market in Derbyshire - when the stall holder said it worked - got home & it didn't!!! 😐🚂🚂🚂

[atom3624]

@37lover good spot on the different manufacturer details.

It is still becoming a more common occurrence that people are receiving effectively 'faulty goods' - not as per full description, with glue excesses, parts loose, etc.

It is probable there is QC to some quite considerable extent, but has it developed sufficiently to cover the considerably greater details now incorporated in modern production proprietary models?

Al.

[andys steam dayz]

Hi

I have purchased 3 new unrebuilt Merchant Navys and all have been faulty my first was Channel Packet which I purchased from Hornby the motor had to be replaced I purchased Belgium Marine from gaugemaster this had to be replaced as the motor was faulty and the last one I have had to send back to hornby repairs this was the tts sound fitted Merchant navy when taken out the box there was no sound and no movement from the loco.Still waiting for it to come back not sure what the problem is with this one but it could be something like a loose wire hornby have been great repairing it but if these had been checked at the factory thre would not be this problem I think qc needs to start at the factory

[Lyd 85B]

Where responsibility should lie for QC seems to be debatable. Some say it's the factory, others that, given an extended global supply chain, where goods may occupy containers for weeks or months with extreme temperature and humidity changes, and with violent sea conditions, the domestic supplier should do it.

As with used cars, where teething problems have been sorted, I often buy on eBay and have never needed to return anything.

None of the models I've bought in the last ten years has been in a sealed box, so it seems that retail staff who spend their working lives handling models, should be able to check them without damage to box or contents. My local model shop, now closed through retirement, always ran newly-purchased locos on a test track, whether shop-purchased or mail-order.

[atom3624]

What was the problem with the motors?

2 of them as well, that's highly unusual, particularly with this motor.

Al.

[Tony57]

In the old days Hornby use to make sure the locos ran using a short test track before packing them, maybe they should import them into the UK unpackaged check and test run with and without a chip being fitted to make sure everything is ok then pack them here in the UK before sending them out to the shops or home addresses. With Locos costing anything between £100 and £400 all locos should work straight out of the box and be totally undamaged.

[ColinB]

I have already said, Bure Valley check their locos, as do TMC and Derails. Given that the price is virtually the same where ever you buy the loco, perhaps people should buy from those Retailers that they know test them. Derails are especially good. In my case a lot of the time I buy locos that are heavily discounted because they are last years (or older) stock, so in those cases I accept that there may be issues. Having said that, the only major issue I have had is a 8 pin DCC socket not working properly, I replaced it and got Hornby to send me a replacement. On my King the motor disengaged itself but that was easily fixed.

[Potterton]

@ andys steam dayz "Hi

I have purchased 3 new unrebuilt Merchant Navys and all have been faulty my first was Channel Packet which I purchased from Hornby the motor had to be replaced I purchased Belgium Marine from gaugemaster this had to be replaced as the motor was faulty and the last one I have had to send back to hornby repairs this was the tts sound fitted Merchant navy when taken out the box there was no sound and no movement from the loco.Still waiting for it to come back not sure what the problem is with this one but it could be something like a loose wire hornby have been great repairing it but if these had been checked at the factory thre would not be this problem I think qc needs to start at the factory"

My old English teacher would have run out of red ink in his pen with this. Only one full stop and not even a space to follow it. scream

[96RAF]

As stated QC is a factory function with approval given after product owner checks on sub-con production to their satisfaction, whether random checks or percentage based. The whole process is laid down in ISO900x, which may or may not be recognised in China as such but may be in principle for the contract.

This approval process then absolves the owner from doing their own post production checks, but does not get them out of ongoing lawful responsibility for faults found post production once sold.

There is no requirement for a retailer to do anything apart from flog the item and exchange faulty goods when found. You don’t see supermarkets or DIY stores pulling stuff out of packing apart from checking bulk deliveries for obvious damage in transit.

[ColinB]

It depends on the item, yes you are right Supermarkets don't open things up and test them, but from watching the odd program it does appear that they have quality departments. With a new car the Dealer is required to do a number of checks, so it is not that unusual. At the end of the day as a Retailer you want a happy customer, so anything you can do to improve that relationship is good for business. The only exception to this is where you are buying something heavily discounted, where any sensible person appreciates that there might be risks. I have got to admit, I have bought many brand new locos over the past year off Hornby and they have all been perfect except for the A2s where there were a number of issues. None of the issues stopped the loco running but things like the top seam showing and a smoke deflector put on wrong. After watching "Sams Video" I came to the conclusion that they were all like that. To give Hornby credit the subsequent releases of the A2 were much better. As to TTS decoders we all know that there are many issues with them, as is documented on this site, so I can understand why a loco fitted with one could have issues.

[The son of Triangman]

As others have said Quality control is the domain of the manufacturer, items going to the shops should be perfect or as near as when they leave the factory. As goodwill and to protect their trading name, a lot of smaller shops tend to check to see if their stock is in good saleable condition before it goes on the shelf for sale, but they don't have to, it should be right from the factory.

A buyer can always ask to see their purchase run after buying it.

[Lyd 85B]

A buyer can always ask to see their purchase run after buying it.

 

 

Only when bought over the counter, which for me entails a fifty mile round trip to my nearest model shop, adding yet more cost to an already-inflated and undiscounted RRP. The only practical alternative is mail-order, where I'm in the hands of the retailer for testing (or not).

 

 

 

 

[96RAF]

@Lyd

Great Eastern Models, my local Norwich model shop will upon request test and video a new or S/H loco on their shop track for you. They usually discount new models against RRP and will do mail order from a phone call as they have no online sales site apart from a FB page.

[ColinB]

As I said in a previous post Derails and Bure Valley definitely test their models.