Hornby R2675 Flying Soctsman DCC Conversion using Hornby Guide - Any one used this Guide

[Deem]

Hello Everyone

I hope everyone is OK and in good health, enjoying model trains as much I am enjoying.

I just serviced my Hornby R2675 Flying Scotsman with service sheet HSS316 and now looking to convert to DCC, if anyone have used below Hornby DCC conversion Guide, please share your views or opinion or any complication.

https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360016347580-R2675-RailRoad-Flying-Scotsman

I will be very grateful.

Regards

[Deem]

Hello Everyone.

I am assuming nobody have used Hornby conversion guide, hence no replies to my thread.

Anyway while I am waiting 8 Pin Wire harness (so I can soldered the harness on to Loco Driven motor) after that just plug in Hornby R8249 decoder . That way, I can make sure I am not coming close to Decoder with hot soldering iron. Also I can test the loco with blanking plate Adapter, make sure loco runs in DC mode after soldering all the wires.

Question is, can add the iphone speaker to R8249 and how would I store sound file on decoder.

[Chrissaf]

The R8249 is not capable of being converted to sound. Sound decoders and normal motor / function decoders have completely different physical electronic architectures. Apart from sound decoders having additional memory to hold the sound files, they also have additional audio amplifier circuitry to feed the speaker and in addition to that, sound decoders need a completely different firmware to normal motor / function decoders.

Even if you purchased a blank sound decoder [for example a Loksound or equivalent sound decoder brand] you would then need specialist programming hardware / software that is matched to the decoder brand being used. You cannot load sound files into a sound decoder using a basic DCC controller. Loading sound files onto a blank sound decoder is a highly specialist activity.

[Deem]

@Chrissaf

I just typed in google Uploading Sound files to decoder and first video came up which is,

Check it out and what's your thoughts on that or even Digitrax Decoder Programmer PR4 for $95.00 plus postage.

Looking at the UK prices some sound file are chargeable I believe, but American can download free of charge for there loco's from Digitrax website Sound FX Download.

Bachmann Class 20 sound file free to Download from Digitrax

https://www.digitrax.com/sound-depot/br-class-20-bo-bo-diesel/

Decoder with speaker is $56.00

https://www.digitrax.com/products/sound-decoders/sfx006/

Digitrax PR4 USB to LocoNET Decoder Programmer is $95.00

https://www.digitrax.com/products/computer-control/pr4/

UK out of stock from DIGITRAINS for £72.95

Another free Download for Class 08

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/1?type=diesel&order=date&country=gb

[96RAF]

Digitrax is a fairly unique American system that does allow you to upload sound files via their controller and programmer using pre-prepared sound files.

You are however tied to their system, as you are to ESU with LokProgrammer or Zimo with their programmer. ESU have loads of free files but not many applicable to UK locos. I don’t know if Zimo have any free files.

These free files take away much of the very skilled task of building your own sound files from scratch which is what you have to do if there is no download available for your particular loco.

You cannot mix and match products at the sound file upload stage, but you can operate them on track using any NMRA compliant controller.

[Fishmanoz]

Deem, that conversion guide is a bog standard conversion that will work on just about any modern Hornby steam loco from 0-4-0 up. But do discard the suppressor capacitor unlike the guide, it’s unnecessary for DCC and a failure risk as Colin has described previously.

Adding a socket as you’ve described gives those advantages and you can start with the 8249, then go FS TTS later if you wish. TTS are also 8-pin plus separate wires to the speaker, not via the plug/socket.

Just make sure you get your socket wiring correct. You’ve previously been referred to Brian Lambert which has pin designations for all sockets, or there is one on this site in the DCC Support section. Incorrect wiring may blow a decoder instantly, accidentally putting motor orange or grey to where red or black should be will do that.

Without the complication of uploading sound files to a blank sound decoder of another brand (you can’t upload to TTS, you get what comes loaded and can’t change it, hence why different TTS for each loco type), you can always buy them loaded from any of the reputable suppliers. Some will be 21-pin so you will need a 21-8 conversion harness as well.

[Deem]

@Fishmanoz

Many Thanks for your input and realy appreciate your input. Will save this post and update which route I take to update to sound decoder.

Regards

[Deem]

@96RAF

You are spot on, in regards to each system they are unique to it's own upgrade or accessories.

As for sound I did notice that Digitrax uses different types of file compare to ESU.

Digitrax uses spj type files, ESU uses esux type files.

As for making my own files I think I need much time before even considering such a complicated task.

Regards

[Deem]

@Fishmanoz

Thanks for your input and I am bit confused now, according to Hornby Official guide Capacitor is been kept,

According to Brian Lambert conversion to Ringfield Motor have kept the Capacitor, please see below picture.

My own thoughts are after reading few leaflet from Peco No 20 capacitor been removed.

I am incline to go towards not having Capacitor and would appreciate in input.

Regards

[96RAF]

If you want to try compiling sound files there used to be tutorials and all the necessary sound clips on the ESU site. You could download the free Programmer software and have a go even without a LokProgrammer to load the results to a suitable decoder.

I tried many years ago and gave up as it was too complex for my old grey matter to master, so I stuck with using their pre-prepared sound packages, which load very easily. You can load these into the software and study the package assembly out of interest.

[ColinB]

The only reason I remove the capacitor is that is prone to going short circuit, taking the decoder with it (been there with a class 66). I think the last time a looked at one it was a relatively small value so it won't do much to the DCC motor drive signal. I must admit when I converted mine I put the decoder in the loco and connected it to the tender by adding a 4 way lead. If your loco chassis is the same as mine you will see there are slots for the sword type pickups, so you can make the loco chassis pick up on both sets of wheels which makes running much better.

[Deem]

@96RAF

Thanks for your response, Before I could even consider doing anything like that I would like to learn or know which hardware you use to upload sound file, based on your description and Am I to assume you are using or used ESU Hardware?

Regards

[Deem]

@ColinB

Am I correct you ran 4 wires from Loco to tender and than connected the wires in tender to Ringfield Motor instead of having decoder in tender.

That would be correct for Tender driven older Scotsman, I have Hornby R.2675 which is Loco driven with newer version of can motor (if I am correct) and there is enough space to install mini or medium Decoder in Loco body. this particular model have both side Loco pickups and can run without Tender, also have pickups in tender both side which provide contacts to Loco from Tender as well. Will upload pictures later showing what I meant.

Look forward to your response.

Regards

[ColinB]

Sorry I thought it was a Ringfield, so what is the issue? According to the web it is DC ready so you just take the loco body off and fit a decoder into the socket. The decoder if it is a Hornby fits in front of the loco weight.

[Deem]

@ColinB

Thanks for your response again, My Loco Hornby R.2675 Flying Scotsman is not DCC ready, and this will be my first conversion so I am extra cautious, I believe Hornby R.3086 or various other Hornby numbers are DCC ready.

Regards

[ColinB]

Ok, if it is not DCC ready I would suggest you convert it so that the DCC socket is in the tender. Having the DCC socket in the loco does not easily allow you to have sound as there is very little room. I am currently building an R2617 A3 Ladas and there is barely enough room for the DCC decoder. If you want to add sound the easiest solution is buy one of these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304237776774?hash=item46d5fc0f86:g:8QYAAOSw1lZhniBq

This includes the tender bottom which will fit your existing tender top plus you will need a X6113 4 way cable which the two outer wires connect to the loco pickups (you will have to test which way round) and the inner two connect to the loco motor.

[Fishmanoz]

Deem, using the KISS principle, let me repeat my previous - the Hornby guide is fine for conversion and the addition of a socket in the loco even better. Especially for a first conversion.

There is no reason for having the suppression capacitor, the RF suppression is contained in the decoder, so leave it out. Hornby seem to leave it in as a legacy design compliance with government RF suppression requirements. Reference to degradation of DCC signal is a furphy as this capacitor is not across the incoming DCC signal (that could be the start of a problem if it were), it is across the motor drive.

Having done the socket in the loco and used the 8249, you will be in a position to evaluate if a larger sound decoder and small speaker will also fit there. If not, then Colin’s more complicated, non-KISS tender mount solution will be the way to go. It requires a 4-wire plug and socket to tender for a start (2 wires for pickups, 2 for motor) as well as possibly needing the different tender chassis Colin suggests. Chances are your existing tender already has pickups which go back to the loco via the tender post (haven’t checked the specific model but my DCC Ready with socket In loco Railroad FS does). But I would not be going this way as a first conversion.

[96RAF]

@deem

I suggest you start a new thread about creating and loading sound files rather than keep sidetracking this one which is about installing decoders in a loco, then we can go deeper into the kit and processes used.

[ColinB]

I don't want to split hairs but actually if you want to add sound my solution is far simpler. These are the reasons:

The new tender base comes with everything except the tender top, so you don't have to buy a socket and more importantly find space in the loco to mount one.

To put in a socket in the loco you are going to have to rewire the pickups and motor wires to wire into the socket (assuming you have found a place to put it). Wiring to the normal DCC socket is fiddly unless it is the new type as they don't solder that easily and very easy to short out tracks. With the new tender base option the socket is already wired.

Finally if you can afford it, the new tender base offers best value for money, you get the sound decoder even on discount the cheapest is £35 + P & P, DCC socket at £4.00, tender bottom at £6.00, wheels at £6.00, tender wheels keeper plate £3.00.

So overall it is the cheapest and simplest option, the only issue is getting the X6113 wires right, but you would have to do that with the socket in the loco.

I must admit if I can, I fit the DCC socket in the tender on all my locos there is less to damage. Trying to squeeze wires into a confined space is not a good idea, I was fixing a loco for a friend and I found the act of squeezing the wires into a Britannia had actually split it inside the insulation where it got crushed in the assembly process.

[ColinB]

There is one additional thing to check though, for my solution to work. I forgot some of the Railroad models use the upgraded Ringfield motor tender with the motor missing, if you have this option of tender my solution will not work. The newer models use the one screw tender, where the screw is under the coupling.

[Deem]

@96RAF

Fair point and I will keep that in mind for future projects.

@Fishmanoz

Thanks for your input as well and I will update once I have installed the decoder.

@ColinB

Thanks for your detailed description, and you are spot on to point out some Loco's, same as my Loco is Railroad version with Dummy Ringfield motor body in tender.

I will stick to just DCC conversion for now until my skills are improved and I feel confident enough attempting more complex work such as TTS or Sound decoder and installing speaker in tight or limited space.

Regards