EvoGraeme Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 hi new to the forum and fairly new to modelling. i'm just about to start fitting point motors to my layout(dcc), but i'm having trouble understanding what is needed. here are a couple of questions. will each set of point need a decoder ? what is a bus wire ? any wiring diagrams would be appreciated or links to videos are hornby point frog ? electro frog ? or what ever very confused any help woukld be appreciated thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Each point needs a motor. An accessory decoder from Hornby can operate 4 point motors. A bus wire is one of a pair of wires that are used to distribute the dcc signal. hornby points are insul frog. some helpful info can be found at http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-2.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Hi EvoGraeme, answering in turn: 1. Point motors are driven using Accessory Decoder R8247 which has 4 outputs. You can find the instruction manual for it on this site under Downloads, Hornby Digital Instruction Manuals - see left hand side. It is usually pooible to fire 2 points from 1 ouput. A typical place to use this is where you have 2 points as a crossover between tracks and you always want to change both at the same time. 2. A bus wire is a pair of wires which distributes power around your layout from the output of your controller to various points around your layout where you may wish to connect the power. You would connect an Accessory Decoder to this bus when it is a long way away from your controller in your layout. There is a good explanation at http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm#Basics 3. See answer 1 - the Manual has circuit diagrams. 4. Hornby points are insulfrog or dead frog. This means that the frog, which is the part of the point where the 2 inner rails of the 2 tracks cross over each other, is made from plastic and so doesn't conduct. This is the simplest type of point to wire up and use but sometimes locos stall on the frog. Electro frog or live frog has the frog made from metal rail sections. This eliminates the stalling problem but you now have to isolate the frog then switch it from one polarity to the other when the points are thrown. Take a look at this link - http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm#Insulated frog points which has a good explanation, then look at the next section on live frog at http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm#Live Frog points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoGraeme Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 cheers for that. great link,things are making much more sense. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 It always amazes me that a basic question can be asked, yet no research has been previously carried out! Google is normally your friend when it comes to finding out what a particular word or phrase means. e.g. Google 'DCC bus' and you will be enlightened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I've sometimes asked particular questions where, yes, I could easily have searched on-line first. I just feel that it assists forum members generally to post them because it's always quite surprising what can come up that you'd never considered, even if you had looked it up. I suppose we could all do what you suggest.......but then there would probably be no forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David55 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I am used to searching google for information in respect of my business. The answers I appreciate because I know what they are talking about. If you google DCC bus you get a load of info but out of 7 sites visited, none of them tell you what an actual DCC bus is. This is what this forum is about, it tells you the basics to allow you to find out more information later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 No that is not what I meant or inferred. If you don't know what 'xxx' means surely its easier to Google this and see what appears rather than ask on a forum. The question asker has to know how to use a PC and the intgernet so why not do some reasurch before asking? If the result is still unclear then ask on a forum where often the replies from users provide the answer needed, but often you will get umpteen replies to the question, which only a couple are really relevant, correct or accurate. By Googling you get in most cases the facts. Forums are a great place for knowledge and getting answers from like minded modellers etc., but if I asked a basic question like "what is DCC bus?" or "What is ac" etc I would probably find a more accurate answer and much quicker by Googling it and reading those answers from my search results rather than typing it onto a forum and then waiting for someone to come along and reply. But if its a technical question that's different, say.... "How does my Hornby Elite work with a Select" or "Can my Hornby locos work with Lenz decoders" then its very forum relevant. And no, a 'DCC Bus' is not a double decker or a red painted thing that has wheels and mostly seem to come along in twos!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 David55 said: I am used to searching google for information in respect of my business. The answers I appreciate because I know what they are talking about. If you google DCC bus you get a load of info but out of 7 sites visited, none of them tell you what an actual DCC bus is. This is what this forum is about, it tells you the basics to allow you to find out more information later. I Googled this and the first entries all seem to give a good insight as to what is meant by the term 'DCC bus'. - Two wires fed by the DCC console that are then run around the underside of the railway and feed the rails via smaller dropper wires! http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=dcc+bus&oq=DCC+bus&gs_l=hp.1.0.0l4.2508.4293.0.5713.7.7.0.0.0.2.948.2914.0j3j1j5-1j2.7.0...0.0...1c.4SFZrXAQO2E&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=2065ce53bf58ba1a&biw=1138&bih=497 I seem to have stirred up some resentment!! Sorry about that, but I still stand by my views re trying to initially fact find wherever possible before asking people to commit their time to reply to something that is already well explained elsewhere and very easily found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I agree.... google is your friend and there are some wonderful resources available on the internet. much of the enjoyment of this hobby for me is "figuring stuff out" and I think that it is always best to get as far as you can yourself before asking for help. Questions along the lines of "I have understood X and Y and was wondering if anyone has some tips or practical experience with...." tend to provoke the most interesting discussions. having said that... if there are some beginners that just don't know how to get started then the forum is here to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 'Houston, we've had a problem. We've had a main B bus undervolt.' Bus wire: From Bus Bar. A conductive bar or rod that carries electricity. A diminutive of Omnibus Bar. From the Latin omnis meaning ALL. It's just a wire that is thick enough to take all the power around your layout and has smaller feeder wires attached to it going to the track. You can have a DC bus wire too. It's the same thing. If the bus wire is too thin it can overheat without the controller cutting out automatically. For a full explanation of where the word originates and where Apollo 13 comes into it see http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/omnibus.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoGraeme Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Flashbang said: It always amazes me that a basic question can be asked, yet no research has been previously carried out! Google is normally your friend when it comes to finding out what a particular word or phrase means. e.g. Google 'DCC bus' and you will be enlightened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoGraeme Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 sorry if i offended you, i had done research, but just wanted experts opinions, i just kept my question simple, i got a link i had not seen which was far better than what i had been looking at. No one is forced to reply to a post,i had a great reply already. why have you wasted your precious time even posting up. Didn't relies the model railway world would be so unfriendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Hey EG, don't give up, keep asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonBigBoy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Brilliant tip in Point 1 Fishman thanks - never considered that. Fishmanoz said: It is usually pooible to fire 2 points from 1 ouput. A typical place to use this is where you have 2 points as a crossover between tracks and you always want to change both at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonBigBoy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Gregd99 said: I agree.... google is your friend and there are some wonderful resources available on the internet. much of the enjoyment of this hobby for me is "figuring stuff out" and I think that it is always best to get as far as you can yourself before asking for help. Questions along the lines of "I have understood X and Y and was wondering if anyone has some tips or practical experience with...." tend to provoke the most interesting discussions. having said that... if there are some beginners that just don't know how to get started then the forum is here to help. Without the kind advice here I wouldn't have a clue. I am a researcher by nature, but no doubt I have asked some elementary newbie questions on here. It takes time to get your head around it all and that is why I came to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonBigBoy Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 EvoGraeme said: sorry if i offended you, i had done research, but just wanted experts opinions, i just kept my question simple, i got a link i had not seen which was far better than what i had been looking at. No one is forced to reply to a post,i had a great reply already. why have you wasted your precious time even posting up. Didn't relies the model railway world would be so unfriendly. EG Stick around - I have had some really good help in here - and I didn't think your questions were off beam, and I learnt something new about point motors at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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