WWI aircraft - gloss or matt finish?

[null_null981707818191]

My First World War mini-project is making some progress and I’m now at the painting and finishing stage of the first model – a very old-mould Fokker Dr.1. But I’ve now got a question that might provoke a variety of responses – should the final finish be matt or satin, or even gloss? The colour call-out on the rather yellowed fold-out instructions for the Fokker is M19 which is of course (in old nomenclature) Matt Red. But surely – and in a couple of the books that I have read - the linen would be painted with dope (in this case with red colour added), which would then be varnished to weather-proof it. But if varnished, would this have remained glossy, or would it have rapidly weathered on the Western Front to a satin – or even matt – finish?

At the moment, I’m inclined to seal in the decals with a coat of Vallejo matt varnish, which is somewhere between matt and satin when it eventually dries. Anyone got any cogent, and preferably fact-based thoughts?

The next one off the production line is going to be an Albatros DV, which has a mainly bare-wood fuselage, which is generally discernible in pictures as gloss varnished, so that’s quite an easy decision (although I’ll probably use satin varnish to give the correct scale-effect). Then after that, it’ll be the Sopwith Camel, which again raises the question of varnished dope finishes.

Still, I’m enjoying trying to turn these rather creaky old-moulds into something reasonably good. I’ll post some pictures as I finish (in every sense of the word…) each one!

[SD45elect2000]

My real world experience with railway and aircraft finishes is that in 1914 they did not have long lasting gloss finishes. On railway cars the gloss was provided by hand rubbing the finish after multiple applications of varnish. I cannot see hand rubbing a 1914 fiber airplane skin. Nothing was shiny back then unless the paint was fresh.

Randall

[Dominic Thomas]

I agree with Rod. It’s your model and you have to be happy with it.

If I could just say, it’s likely that whatever finish you chose, there’s a chance of the aircraft having that at some time in it’s career. The evolution likely to have been from some form of gloss, through satin, to matt, based on operational wear & tear.

I always thought matt was appropriate until I read this post and starting looking at old pictures in more detail. There are a couple of photos of Sopwith Dolphins [19 & 87 Squadrons] that show a distinct sheen on the lower wings. It’s difficult to say how long those aircraft had been in service at the time of the pictures, but safe to say it was near the end of the war. Perhaps in their case, a satin finish would be appropriate.

I hope this helps.

Dominic

[null_null981707818191]

Some very helpful replies gentlemen - many thanks.

[null_null981707818191]

And in answer to Rod's closing comment, here's a quick snap of current status! You can just make out some of the inner cockpit detail that I added, like a 'wicker' chair and some inner struts and framing.

The decals weren't the original ones - they were very badly yellowed and no amount of sunlight exposure rectified the problem. And according to several of the books, only the tail fin cross had a white background.

Next stage is to add the guns, then the pilot, then the top wing, then the wheels...and then a bit of rigging (oh, joy!)

But as Dominic quite correctly points out - it's my model, and I think I'm fairly happy with it...

[Frederick Kullas]

Matt looks better but the paints were gloss and French paints, after 1915, were actually 'metallic' looking as the lead binder was replaced by aluminium. The lead being required for bullets

Gloss paint was common, matt paint was hardly known. As most aircraft were painted using the same types of paints as on cars of the time gloss was the normal

[SD45elect2000]

We must make the distinction that fabric aircraft were not painted, they were doped. perhaps the metal parts were given a nice lacquer finish and rubbed out but not the fabric.

[peebeep]

I don't recall any of the vintage or reproduction aircraft at Old Warden looking particularly glossy, other than on polished or painted metal surfaces. Paint on fabric tends to be naturally satin/not quite gloss. This will soon scrub off after a few hours flying time, because unless given huge amounts of TLC a glossy aircraft will soon dull down. You might also want to take into account scale effect, something that looks very shiny full size will look unnatural if the same amount of gloss is reproduced in a smaller scale,

[Dominic Thomas]

I agree with Rod. And I’m looking forward to seeing a completed little Fokker.

[John Symmons]

Hi null_null89.

Been trying to reply to your post for the past two weeks, finally made it.

If you can find a copy of Fighters, Attack & Training Aircraft, or Bombers, Patrol & Reconnaissance Aircraft 1914 – 1919 both by Kenneth Munson you’ll find in the back an Appendix 1 & 2. Appendix 1 is by Kenneth Munson, and deals mainly British and German marking and colours and their respective finishes including the German lozenge pattens. The second Appendix is by Ian D Huntley, A.M.R.Ae.S. who’s been studying and researching aircraft colours for over twenty years, and was considered by many museums including the RAF Museum at Hendon to be the go-to expert especially for WW1 aircraft The Appendix 2 dealing with the British “Khaki” finishes thought-out the WW1 conflict. Including the mixing of the various pigments and the oils and solvents used together with their application. These little books (Aprox A5) are a mine of information and my initial go-to reference of WW1 aircraft. They’re published by Octopusbooks.co.UK, and mine have the price tag of 7.99 pounds each.

For the British “Khaki” colour I find the Vallejo model colour 70.887 9 (position 93 ) brown violet to be about right, as it is a khaki brown with a green tinge depending on the light. Just don’t use a green it just looks wrong you’d be better-off using US field drab. For the underside beige or buff in the Vallejo range are ok-ish may a touch to dark unless you want a particularly weathers look other-wise try ice yellow for a more pristine look. The undersides of British WW1 aircraft were usually left plain doped varnish made with linseed oil which yellows very quickly.

As for gloss or mat finish, the final coat was often a clear varnish so new aircraft were quiet shiny when new, but of course weathered very quickly when used on the western front, so a mat or semi mat to satin finish would be more appropriate. This can easily be achieved using Vallejo mat and satin varnishes or mixing them to get the desired sheen.

As you said the Albatros fighters had a molded ply-wood fuselage that wat varnished in a clear varnish for that a satin or semi-gloss finish would be better with the wings a more mat finish.

One thing I’ve found helpful, especially with the Cape Town weather, is adding some retarder to Vallejo paints. Not only does it stop the paint drying really fast but it just takes off the complete flatness of the matt paint giving it just a touch of sheen.  

Hope you find this helpful and looking forward to seeing your completed projects.

The models below were all painted with Vallejo Brown Violet note the colour variation depending on the lighting, even though they were all taken in natural sunlight.

Airfix F2b. This model really needs retiring or retooling.

Roden's F2b as a night fighter.

ESCI SE. 5a (I wish Airfix would tool this plane I've been waiting for over 50 years.)

Remember we do this for fun John the Pom.

[null_null981707818191]

Hi John

Thanks for your very useful and informative reply. For RFC machines, I think your Vallejo Brown Violet suggestion is a very good call. Now that autumn is well and truly here in the UK, a retarder is definitely not required!

The Albatros DV is coming along quite satisfactorily. I've finished the 'bare plywood' on the fuselage, and I've varnished it with Vallejo satin - which accords with your suggestion. As it's all done with brushes, I'm quite pleased with the effect.

I'll post some more pictures when it's completed.