Couplers

[Rallymatt]

@ Silver Fox 17

In a word, no.

The Arnold and presumably Hornby TT120 couplers don’t engage at all well, they need a ‘slam’ and uncoupling via an overhead magnet is fiddly where as the Tillig couplers connect with the lightest of contacts and uncouple from above with no fuss.

The two couplings are so alike it’s clearly not a design issue, I’m tempted to say it’s the material the plastic body of the coupler is made from. The Arnold/Hornby one could possibly benefit from lubrication, I was thinking graphite powder but noticed TT Man mention PTFE powder too.

I don’t think it can be a dimension issue either because Tillig to Arnold works perfectly too, it’s Arnold to Arnold that’s poor. I must admit the one worry I had was frustration in shunting and even manual with Tillig couplers is no problem and swapping them if needed is not a major cost of headache

[TT-Man]

@Rallymatt

Sorry I misspoke. It is actually graphite powder I was thinking of. Specifically "Grease-em" which is marketed by Kadee - part number 231. You get 2 tubes in a packet and it lasts ages.

[Rallymatt]

@TT-Man thank goodness for that, I thought I had missed a trick…. I scrape away at some ‘pencil lead’ to create graphite powder and brush it onto what ever it is I want to dry lube.

[TT-Man]

@Rallymatt I received my experimental kit from Tillig today, so I was able to do some testing with their couplers. Have to agree they are super. They go together perfectly at incredibly slow speeds. Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

The magnetic uncoupling wand works a treat too. I think I will order one of their electric uncouplers to see how that works.

Doing a bit of research I see this uncoupler design won Tillig a 'Model of the Year' award in 2006 when they were first introduced. I can't believe they haven't been copied in larger scales.

I was also surprised how unobtrusive they look in a real setting. In side on pictures they look big and ugly. Not so in reality. Have to say they are the best ready fitted couplings I have had on any scale of UK and European rolling stock. Who knew?

Hopefully, the Hornby ones are more like the Tillig version than the Arnold. I have some Arnold ones coming soon so i will be able to test myself. Maybe yours were a dud batch. Anyway my Scotsman set will reveal the truth.

[Rallymatt]

@TT-Man, yes, they really are that good!

I agree, why haven’t they been picked up on in other scales?

The body of the Tillig coupling seems slippery’er than the Arnold one, will experiment with some graphite lubrication over weekend. Currently been on a ballasting marathon! And in TT it’s more involved than OO but that’s a new topic 😀

[mcr22]

Hi....can anyone tell where I can get some couplings that work with the Hornby ones?......I have some continental wagons with a totally different coupler & would like to change then over to Hornby style

Thanks

[TT-Man]

Hi....can anyone tell where I can get some couplings that work with the Hornby ones?......I have some continental wagons with a totally different coupler & would like to change then over to Hornby style

Thanks

 

 

The best quality ones are made by Tillig.

You can get packets of 8 (part 08840) or 56 (part 08841). The UK importers are Golden Valley Hobbies:

https://www.goldenvalleyhobbies.com

However, they are out of stock on many items.

Best bet is Modellbahnshop Lippe in Germany. Although you will have to deal with the Brexit nonsense.

https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com

Or you can get Arnold ones from this very website (Arnold are owned by Hornby):

HN9012/03 Coupling Pack

Although unhelpfully it doesn't say how many are in a pack? Issues have been reported with the Arnold ones so the jury is out on how good they are. However, it looks from photos as though Arnold ones a fitted to the Hornby models. So if you are happy with how your current Hornby models perform then you could go for those.

 

 

[mcr22]

many thanks for the info

[Markus1707823000]

I recommend couplers from Kuehn. They're the same standard as the Tillig ones (and the Hornby couplers), but they hold together a bit better on uneven track. Modellbahnshop Lippe is definitely the place to go for TT stuff!

[TT-Man]

Yes that coupler design was first released by Tillig in 2006. They are very unobtrusive in appearance from all normal viewing angles. I don't know if other makes are produced under license or if the design is patent free.

The close coupling is provided by the KK-Kinematics assembly (a spring loaded mechanism that mounts the NEM pocket) rather than the coupling itself.

[TT-Man]

@Rallymatt did you solve your Arnold coupler issue?

My 4 Arnold Ferry wagons arrived today. Very lovely they are. The level of fine detail reminds me of Brawa HO wagons. The British loading gauge that the prototype was built to is vey evident in the models. Much narrower than my continental loading gauge wagons. Great for prototypical running on an Era II, III or IV British layout.

Being paranoid about couplings I immediately tested them for hooking up with each other, with my Tillig wagons and my Tillig loco. Three of them performed brilliantly in all tests. The fourth wouldn't couple to anything! Even with very strong pressure from the hand of dog it wouldn't couple.

First I noticed that the Arnold couplers are mounted much lower than the Tillig ones. That is to say they are much nearer rail level when looked at from the side. This seems to a problem in all scales, that different manufacturers mount their coupling holders at different heights rather than accurately following NEM standards. Nonetheless only one wagon seemed to have a problem.

After further detailed examination I noticed that all the working couplers hooked to the left whereas the recalcitrant wagon had couplers hooking to the right. If you look at the metal part of the couplers, the part that moves up and down to hook together and unhook, you will see that there is a little tab bent at a 90 degree angle. This is intended to guide the couplers left to left, but it wasn't doing so on my naughty wagon. The naughty couplers looked identical to the others as far as I could see. Eventually I realised that the problem didn't lie with the couplers but with the KK-Kinematics mechanism. That's what the continental modellers call the spring operated arm that mounts the NEM pocket and the coupler. The arms were trending too far to the right (rather than being centered) preventing the couplers from working.

The solution? I just flicked the arms from side to side several times which then seemed to centre them and the couplers worked fine! If they start to stick again I shall apply a bit of graphite powder to the arm mechanism where it rubs against the enclosure.

EDIT

Well after further use I started having more problems with the Arnold couplers!!!

Following more time spent comparing them to the Tillig ones it is clear that the Arnolds are chunkier plastic mouldings. As a result they are a much tighter fit. The Tillig have quite a bit of windage when fitted together but the Arnold none. This can be seen most clearly when two coupled Arnolds are held upside down. Arnold will fit Tillig quite easily but Arnold often won't fit Arnold as they are too snug. The tight fit serves no purpose as it is the metal hook that holds them together.

This is a major disappointment as from all the photographs and videos I have seen Hornby are using the Arnold design in their models. Unless this has been modified in some way it looks as though I will have to replace them all with the superior Tillig ones.

[Rallymatt]

@TT-Man, well yes I resolved the Arnold coupler issue by replacing them with Tillig ones 🤣

Graphite powder has no effect, it is the slightly wider plastic guide that is the cause of the issue.

I have removed the metal hook on Arnold coupling and use those on my Piko BR130 loco. The beautiful Arnold ferry vans are treated as pairs, I also bought 2 sets so 4 vans. The inner coupling is the original Arnold one and the outers Tillig. Then it’s easy to shunt, uncouple 2 vans for unloading at a time. I have pre ordered the Hornby goods shed so 2 vans should slide in there nicely.

For future probably will use a similar idea, replace Hornby/Arnold couplings where the frequent break in the train will be. My coaching stock will only unhitch at either end of the rake, wagons will probably end up all Tillig for maximum shunting and marshalling pleasure.

Obviously that is assuming the Hornby coupling is identical to Arnold ones, it could well have been modified….if not Hornby could think about that as a valuable production tweak.

[TT-Man]

For coupling nerds only!

It seems that although Tillig invented the 'Universal Coupling' other companies that copy them have to change the design a bit to get round patent issues. So other makes are not exactly the same.

I was told by a German TT enthusiast that the Arnold (Hornby) couplings are actually made by Kuehn. The small extra moulding on these that looks like a vacuum pipe is in fact supposed to be a device to stop the couplings coming undone on bumps or uneven track. Some of the German enthusiasts seem to prefer the Kuehn couplings for this reason (they must be bad at laying track joy). However, when pressed about the issue of the couplings being very tight and sometimes not fitting together they agreed! This was put down to the fact that there had been faulty manufacturing in recent years!!!

Not to disparage our continental brethren, but many continental layouts seem to be permanently coupled tail chasers with implausible inclines and above board point motors etc. So I think expectations may be different. Based on my experience so far I much prefer the Tillig brand couplers.

[Rallymatt]

🤓 coupling nerd 🤓

Thats very useful info, I think I will be ordering a big bucket of Tillig couplings.

I have seen some great TT layouts on YouTube etc but I have noticed a few uneven sections causing stock to roll about. I am quite particular about track laying and I avoid inclines if possible. Lots of testing to make sure everything runs smoothly before ballasting etc and then test again and check for stray ballast. Getting track right on a model is just as critical as on the real railway for reliable running.

[Markus1707823000]

As a "continental" modeller (well, there's at least ten times as many of us than of you and we come from 30+ countries, so it's not really a useful way of seeing things; there are big differences between how people in Sweden, Italy, Czech Republic, Germany etc tend to build their model railways). The few times British model railways at all are talked about here where I live, they are usually commented on as a bit boring, only consisting of an oval with a tiny station along the main track (we also make fun of the Germans for their weird love of Märklin) grinning So, I guess there's different ways of seeing things.

My home layout is definitely smack-full of tracks, and has 3 different levels even though it's only 85x170 cm big (my layout at a Swedish forum: https://www.svensktmjforum.se/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=d4nugn8l7iq2hh3eam1gmhrdm1788sce&topic=20791.25). With the inclines and everything, I definitely prefer the Kuehn couplings. They just seem to hold on better.

[RB51]

Nice layout Markus, you’ve certainly managed to get a lot into a relatively small space without making it look overcrowded. R-

[TT-Man]

No offence intended Markus. As with all generalisations mine was potentially misleading and I apologise for that. I think the majority of layouts I have watched on YouTube have been of German origin and that has definitely biased my perception.

I think when it comes to stereotypes I would think of British layouts as often being basically loops (often with the operator in the middle) as you said or station to fiddle yard types, often very flat. Whereas with continental layouts I tend to think of many elevations, shadow stations, continuous running and little shunting. Possibly unfair to both Brits and other Europeans. And of course American layouts are different again.

I think the eye becomes used to certain things as seeming normal. So if you see a British outline layout with Continental track plan it looks very odd and vice versa. I have a large collection of track plan books, both British and in other languages. There is definitely a difference in style in the way the track plans are made.

I have had 2 continental layouts (one Marklin), 1 Japanese and 2 British in the past. The style of each of those layouts reflected the modelling traditions of their country of origin.

[ellocoloco]

Loved your layout, Markus. - That's where the shuttle Galileo went!

It is easy to sometimes group together those who are 'continental' - sorry. There are so many great modellers and models out there, with individual styles that make railway modelling such a great hobby.

[TT-Man]

Markus your layout looks absolutely fabulous. Great attention to detail. I love your home made catenary. With Google Translate I am working my way through your posts. A very interesting Forum, I will have fun reading it. I think the only Scandinavian modeller I was familiar with before was Marklin of Sweden the YouTuber.

[Markus1707823000]

Thanks for the kind words, and absolutely no offense meant or taken. I mean, I'm just about to get started with a British layout myself (Hornby period 3, "Jeeves & Wooster age"), and my first train as a kid was from Märklin... sweat_smile

[Rallymatt]

Hi Markus, I found the form but have no idea how to find pictures of your layout which I’d love to see. The second link doesn’t work for me 😞

Are you modelling in TT a Swedish outline, a few links to Swedish or Scandinavian Diesels from 1950’s-1960’s in TT120 would be great if they exist, my theme of pan European diesel trials needs variety 😁

[RB51]

Copy the whole link and use that, you’ll go straight to the layout thread. R-

[Markus1707823000]

@Rallymat - My layout is a bit of a mix really. I mostly run German models, but I have some Czech, Danish and Swedish stuff as well. Tillig has a fairly good version of the DSB My diesel, and it's been around in a few different colour schemes. I think the original brown-red livery is still available, but mine is the red-back DSB livery from the 80s and 90s (old picture; the overhead wire looks much better today)

Apart from that Scandinavian models are scarce in TT. All of Scandinavia is really Märklin-land. I switched to TT because I live in the Czech Republic, where it's probably the most popular scale. Just to return to the original topic: the DSB My in the picture has Tillig couplers :-)

[Markus1707823000]

Hmm.... I wrote an answer, and then it just disappeared. Hope I won't double post now. Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I mostly have German stuff, but with some Danish, Swedish and Czech locos and cars. But apart from the DSB My, there really isn't much Scandinavian stuff to get in TT. The Nordic countries are Märklin-land. I got into TT when I moved to the Czech Republic, I think it's probably the most popular scale here.

[Markus1707823000]

How do you post pictures here? I tried to add a picture by clicking on the icon next to the "smiley" icon, but it didn't work.