Full length A4 trains

[Steven-345417]

Hello. I should start by saying I don't know much about real or model trains, but I like this TT project and recently jumped in and bought the three different A4 locos.

I would like to represent three realistic full length trains with them, so I have a few questions.

1) What is a realistic train length for Mallard, Falcon and Silver King - i.e. which types of coaches made up the train and how many, and which liveries would they be in?

2) Are these coaches and liveries available from Hornby? I can see several coaches listed, but I don't really know what I'm looking at.

3) If all of the coaches are not available (for example, I'm pretty sure there was food available on these trains) will they become available or should I look elsewhere?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[intlx1]

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/brs-eastern-region-train-formations

[intlx1]

https://www.hattons.co.uk/newsdetail?id=500

[D9020 Nimbus]

At the moment the range of coaches announced is somewhat limited — for example the only mark 1 coaches available so far are the brake second (BSK) and composite (CK). An all second and a "parcels coach" (presumably a BG) are planned for phase 3 or 4. No restaurant cars announced yet, though they will surely follow, as they have made them in OO.

You can't go "elsewhere" at the moment as far as RTR TT coaches are concerned.

In all guides to train formations, the BR standard codes are used. The letters mean:

F = first

S = second (post-1956, before that this would be T = third)

C = composite (contains both first and second/third class accommodation)

K = corridor

O = open

G = gangwayed (usually only used in BG "brake gangwayed" — modellers often refer to this as a full brake)

T = tourist (applies to open coaches — a TSO has more seats than an SO)

[D9020 Nimbus]

There are also several codes for restaurant cars. These start with "R" and you might find "U" (unclassified) in the codes as well as MB (miniature buffet) for example.

[Steven-345417]

Very helpful, especially the guide to the codes. Thanks!

I'll carry on collecting locos until I can buy a complete coach set.

[Rallymatt]

The other consideration is that the make up and length of trains can vary massively depending on the locations and services. That’s before we even get into freight workings by A4s 😁

[Ghia69]

If you are looking for a full Coronation set to build this company can etch in any scale . They have the artwork for the coaches .

http://worsleyworks.co.uk/N/n_gauge_lner_coaches.htm

[Steven-345417]

I can't bear to think about freight yet! Will definitely come but off in the distance.

I just watched all your YouTube videos. Your layout is coming along nicely, but your future plans look great. I'm currently looking at how I can use the loft for a really nice and long run.

[ntpntpntp]

@Steven make sure your loft is properly boarded and lined out and stabilised for temperature and humidity. Raw lofts are terrible places for layouts, they get too hot and too cold, loads of dirt and dust and full of creepy-crawlies :)

[Steven-345417]

Thanks Nick. Our loft is fully insulated, lined and boarded but not heated or ventilated. In the winter I have to wear a coat up there and in the summer I wear just my shorts!

The best way to roughly stabilise the temperature is to keep the loft hatch open, but this only helps in the winter. It's still a cook house in the summer.

[What About The Bee]

F = first

S = second (post-1956, before that this would be T = third)

 

 

For this, you can thank the Railway Act of 1844.

In the very early days of railways, there was little accommodation for poor people. There were 1st class carriages, so called glass carriages because they were enclosed and had actual windows.

There was 2nd class, not enclosed and in 1830/31, literally without a roof. On the LMR, 2nd class absolutely was seated. The LMR provided a roof and end plates to reduce burnt passenger clothing from embers. Eventually, 2nd was enclosed completely, yet 2nd remained a considerably expensive fare throughout LMR history.

The LMR did not want to undercut their own business with 3rd class and only offered it when forced to by Parliament.

Parliament decided that there should be trains at 1d (penny) per mile. This was still a substantial fare for poor people, but the railways grudgingly complied, offering one train a day in each direction at wee hours. Rather rude accommodation, not necessarily seated. So called Parliamentary Trains.

Within 30 years, the railways had enclosed 3rd class and had 3rd seating, which meant there was little difference between 2nd and 3rd. The railways simply dropped 2nd class as a result, being required to offer 3rd by Parliament.

So until 1956, there was posh 1st and egalitarian 3rd, but no 2nd.

I usually don't comment in TT, but do pop in to see, from time to time, what you gentlemen are up to. This caught my eye and thought to share this railway oddity.

Bee

[Peter Stiles]

off topic but "the loft hatch open," bit worried me.

I was under the impression that a loft that has "permanent use" (such as running a railway) is bound by building regs to have (a) a large quantity of window area (b) stairs. Something about Fire regulations.

Willing to be wrong/willing to learn these regs are not countrywide, but I know from the neighbour's loft conversion that there's a big different between a loft to throw junk in and loft to work rest and play in.

[Too Tall]

Thank you Bee, I did wonder about the no second class thing, now enlightened so thank you for taking the time to educate those of us that are new to this hobby. thumbsup

[What About The Bee]

You are quite welcome Too Tall.

Bee

[Shaun -345564]

off topic but "the loft hatch open," bit worried me.

I was under the impression that a loft that has "permanent use" (such as running a railway) is bound by building regs to have (a) a large quantity of window area (b) stairs. Something about Fire regulations.

Willing to be wrong/willing to learn these regs are not countrywide, but I know from the neighbour's loft conversion that there's a big different between a loft to throw junk in and loft to work rest and play in.

 

 

Only if the space has been converted to a permanent room, you are allowed to have a model railroad in your loft.