Unrebuilt Merchant Navy

[LCDR]

This year at least everyone will be wanting A4s. Understandable as this will be a big year with the 75th anniversary of Mallard's epic achievement.

Our local paper had a pull out supplement about Mallard yesterday, and as I arrived into York 60007

and 60009 were being got ready for the 'Gathering', and I know that 4489, 4468 and 60008 were already in their positions inside the Great Hall. It is a fine co-incidence that the sequence 60007, 60008, 60009 and 60010 survived?

So what has this to do

with the Merchant Navy?

Well 21C1 'Channel Packet' was first steamed on 17th February 1941 and entered service following trials in June. So the 75th Anniversary of introduction is going to be in 2016 and that would be a fitting date to introduce it.

Hornby now has three years to develop a suitable, 'Design Clever' model that would enable all the main variations to be produced.

[Graskie]

Why did pre-nationalisation Southern locos have such weird numbers, like 21C1? I've never really looked into that. What was the letter for? Class of loco, type of loco?

[mortehoe]

2 = two leading axles.
1 = one trailing axle.
C = 3 driven axles
1 = numeric number in class.

Taken from the French system of numbering.

[Postman Prat]

Hi Graskie

I hope this will 'keep you quiet' until LC&DR picks up this post

The funny numbers were used by Bulleid, but only for his own designs. Unlike the usual system, which counted wheels, the Bulleid system counted axles. Furthermore

the driving axles were a letter rather than a number and were placed just ahead of the loco number. Merchant Navy 21C1 was a 4-6-2 (2 non-powered axles on a bogie, 1 non-powered axle on a pony tuck and 6 driving wheels) and it's actual number among the 21Cs

was 1. The light pacifics worked the same way except the loco numbers ran from 21C101. The Q class, being 0-6-0s had no bogie/pony wheels and were numbersed C (for 0-6-0) 1 etc.. In the same way the 'Leader ' class had 2 6-wheel powered bogies, and

no other wheels and therefore these became CC 1 etc., although I doubt if they actually carried this number. I believe they were completed after nationalisation and nos 360xx applied. Really this is academic since only the first (perhaps the second) ran a

couple of trials before they were scrapped.

Hope this helps

[Postman Prat]

Oi, Mortehoe!!

Do you have to persist in jumping in while I'm composing an answer????

[Graskie]

Bit late in the post again, PP? You always were apparently. I might perhaps appreciate an erudite response from you....but then perhaps not.

[mortehoe]

Postman Prat said:


Oi, Mortehoe!!

Do you have to persist in jumping in while I'm composing an answer????

Hi PP, ( chortle ). The numbers CC 1 and CC 2, were in fact applied to the Bullied/Raworth electric locos,

which were C-C bogies. The third which was some what different in appearance, carried a BR number only.

[Graskie]

Thanks for the info, chaps.

[Postman Prat]

Hi Mortehoe

One of these days I'll check these things, rather than rely on memory, (dodgy at my age)!!!



Hi PP, ( chortle ). The numbers CC 1 and CC 2, were in fact applied to the Bullied/Raworth electric locos, which were C-C bogies.

The third which was some what different in appearance, carried a BR number only.[/reply]

[mortehoe]

PP, with the happenings of the last six months, on top of over work, I have to check every thing. I wasn't even sure about CC 1 and 2, I had to look it up.

[Postman Prat]

Quite reasonable.

Only worry when you have to look in the mirror to see if you are you!!!

[LCDR]

Bulleid's system can be compared to the SNCF system, where for example a Nord Pacific was numbered 231 E 17. Translated as a 4-6-2 (the French counted axles rather than wheels) type E, the 17th member of the class. Bullied chose to represent the powered

axles with letters rather than numbers and to provide a delimiter between the type code and the individual number he put the powered axle letter after both the leading and trailing carrying wheels. This meant that instead of allocating a class letter as the

SNCF did, the number series identified the individual class variation. Thus the Merchant Navy class were numbered 1 upwards, and the West Country class 101 upwards. Typical of OVSB it was unnecessarily complicated.

The use of a letter to indicate the

number of powered axles was at that time a very modern concept, and was eventually adopted worldwide to describe diesel and electric wheel arrangements.

The French system is remarkably logical. An 0-6-0T is 030T, thus the second example of the 1945

USA type was 030T U 2. The popular and powerful post War 2-8-2s were coded 141R .

[forester]

Designed by under-employed bureaucrats for other bureaucrats, none of whom wanted to get their shirts dirty by going near a loco. The shedmasters didn't need a classification system and the drivers called them Big'Uns and Lil'Uns.

[LCDR]

That is certainly true, stock numbering was the province of the accountant's department, who kept records of all assets so that they could offset these against profit and loss.

[forester]

This should be top of the wishlists considering how much of the Unrebuilt MN Hornby already has available so

....bump.

[LCDR]

I have seen the pre-production model of the MN in 'N' gauge (not Hornby of course) and it is looking good. The man on the stand told me it will be available in two versions with the repositioned safety valves.

Not being very confident that anyone will make it in OO I have already stolen a march on Hornby by converting a Hornby rebuilt MN chassis using a spare set of light Pacific valve gear, modified cylinders and pony truck, a MN tender chassis and a Golden Arrow kits superstructure. I was fortunate that my local dealer had a Hornby loco that its owner had chucked down the stairs, but all the necessary bits were OK. It is finished in early BR blue and I think it looks well.

I have been thinking of making a diorama of a part of Barry Scrap yard using the badly damaged Hornby body and a Airfix chassis.

[forester]

.

[LCDR]

And now it is about to come to pass .......................... :-))

[Fazy]

It's only taken 27 pages but you're wish if finally coming true. 

[LCDR]

 Persistent patience often achieves results. It was nearly five years since Forester started this thread!