OO LMR Sheep Wagon (and Horse Wagon) Review

[What About The Bee]

1½ years after paying a retailer for Hornby's OO LMR Sheep Wagons, they have finally arrived, along with OO LMR Horse Wagons and R7122 OO Sheep. I will not let my disappointment in the un-named vendor color my review.

HISTORICAL DEPICTIONS 

I would like to begin at the beginning. Henry Booth was the Treasurer and Managing Director of the LMR. He wrote a book, published in 1830, titled "An Account of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway ....", which included a plate illustrating rolling stock.

Dead center on that plate was a double decked sheep wagon. Note the position of the doors, on the ends of the wagons, not the sides 

That must have been a proposal sketch, as the first sheep wagons were ordered by the LMR in May of 1831, some time after Booth's account was published. A total of 19 double decked sheep wagons were ordered, divided among 3 vendors.

The Ackermann long prints depict several consists. In the goods (freight) consists, we can see the double decked sheep wagons.  

In this print, please do take a moment to note the length of the passenger carriages and the goods wagons. It isn't just your eye, goods wagons were a few feet shorter than passenger carriages.  

Zooming in, note the positions of the doors. Two per level on one side. It has been suggested by others that the doors were repeated on both sides, but careful examination of each wagon's depiction does not show doors on both sides.  

Bury, Colored Views of the LMR, depicts a sheep wagon, in 1833. As per Booth, doors on the ends, not the sides. 

Crane depicts one, doors on the side.

Moreau depicts one, doors on the ends. Moreau's image is plagiarized, based on other images he also presents. There are a few other derivative depictions. Arthur Freeling shows one, doors as per Ackermann. Austen shows two sheep wagons, but the image is so poor, I cannot make out doors. There could be doors, I just cannot be sure. Freeling and Austen images are obvious plagarism. I mention these just for completeness. 

20TH CENTURY DEPICTIONS

With period depictions complete, I present 2 stamps, published on the 150th anniversary of the LMR, created in 1980. There are other anniversary stamps.

Ordinarily, I would never bother the forum with non-period depictions, but the relevance of these stamps to the review will become evident. Take a look at the color of the curtains on the Booth Carriage on the stamps, and then look at Hornby R30090. I'd say that's a match. Take a look at the sheep wagons on the stamps. Where are the doors? There are none. That matches R60165, but not any period sheep wagon illustration. Now my supposition is that Hornby used the stamps as source material, not actual period illustrations. In particular, for R30090, the Booth Carriage roof racks follow the stamps, not the actual Booth illustration. I think there are far too many "coincidences" to draw any other conclusion.  

WHAT ABOUT CARRIAGE LENGTHS 

I can accept that Hornby used a common chassis for all LMR rolling stock. That is a reasonable cost savings and for all but the purists, its a detail simply not worth worrying over. Should the Hornby goods wagons have been shorter? Of course, yes they should have been. But Hornby would not have known this, because they used those stamps! Look at the length of the sheep wagon v the length of the 2nd Blue passenger carriage on the stamp. Now go back and look at the Ackermann print. It should jump off the page at you.

ENOUGH FAFFING ABOUT BEE

I adore them!! The vertical bars are metal. 6 sheep are included with the wagons, identical sheep to R7122. I will draw up a door in FreeCAD, and have the doors 3D printed. Easy enough to glue onto the wagons, and then they will look like Ackermann's depictions. I think they are a wonderful addition to fleet. Quite happy with them. I will be getting more of these.  

Are the sheep wagons perfect? No. Is there room for improvement? Sure, many models start out with small issues, and those models develop better fidelity with a new issue of the same prototype.  

SOME OTHER HISTORICAL DETAILS

The LMR did a good trade in sheep.  Before refrigeration, all livestock was delivered live. The hardship of that livestock's walk to the city cut into a farmer's wallet. 

Livestock, such as cattle, sheep and pig, did not move between the two cities proper. Livestock needs pasture. So a livestock station was set up in Broad Green, just beyond Edge Hill near Liverpool. Near Manchester, an equivalent was established near Oldfield Lane, in Salford, just outside the city. This feature will be readily added to a layout, sidings and pastures, dotted with sheep, cattle and pig.

(EDIT: The livestock sidings are not as shown. My error. This is the Ordsall Lane Works, the engine shed for the Manchester end of the line. Livestock station is directly across the tracks. See new map in another post below.)

The LMR originally charged for pigs and sheep by the head (8d) but transitioned to a flat charge per wagon, £1. This led to the obvious conclusion, packing in the animals, to their immense suffering. Complaints by the Humane Society of up to 50 animals in a double decker were lodged. Yikes!

There was a single deck livestock wagon for cattle, as well as pig. Oxen were also transported. There was one recorded instance of an elephant being transported! 

By 1839, the sheep wagons were in terrible repair and scrapped. The LMR declined to order more, forcing all the livestock trade into single decked wagons

WHAT ABOUT THE HORSE WAGONS?

 We do have period depictions. You can see one in the Ackerman long print. The fare for one horse, in 1839, was 14s. £1 for 2 horses, £1.20 for 3. The few horse wagon depictions do show 1 and 2 horse loads.  

The same comments about stamps and Hornby apply here as well.

Again, I am pleased with these wagons. Three horses are included with R60166. Further extension of my fleet, with wagons the LMR was known to use.  Happy camper, but 3 of these is plenty, as the LMR transportation of horses wasn't exactly roaring. The LMR only ever had 6 of these wagons, 3 on my layout will be plenty.

Bee

[LTSR_NSE]

Excellent review Bee - a highly informed & informative piece.

The best reviews separate the factual & objective, from subjective opinion, whilst still including both. Allowing the viewer to gain knowledge and appreciate the review itself - whilst still leaving space for personal opinions of the product.

Your review is a perfect example of how to achieve this! 👍

I thoroughly enjoyed gaining information about livestock transportation on L&MR, the various depictions of such, and how closely these products resemble certain depictions.

I especially appreciated not being told to feel either: inadequate that I don’t possess a burning desire to purchase them; or annoyed that Hornby has wasted time/money manufacturing something that nobody could possibly appreciate. Perfection! 😀

[What About The Bee]

I have found further information about the livestock station above. I found a 1:1056 or 5 feet to 1 mile depiction of the livestock station, which affords us a 10× better view than before. We can see both rails of 1 track at this scale. Surveyed in 1848, published in 1851.

In this map, individual buildings are labeled and I can clearly see that I have erred. What I considered to be the livestock sidings are in fact the Ordsall Lane Works. The Ordsall Lane Works handled engine repairs at the Manchester end of the line.

Clearly marked are engine sheds, engine pits, a smithy and the Coke Shed office.

But just across the tracks, on the north side of the mainline, we can see the Pig Station and Cattle Yard. This is strictly on a siding, not the mainline. The livestock station is found!

Note that the Pig Station only has chutes to load/unload on one side of the track. Similarly, cattle would load/unload on one side of the track, or perhaps through a chute at the pig station. While an area is not denoted for sheep, it is reasonable to assume sheep were moved through the livestock station as well.

My thought is that unless the livestock station near Liverpool arranged its chutes on the other side of the track, there would be no reason to have sheep wagon doors on the opposite side. That is, only one side of pig, cattle or sheep wagons would have a gate or door. No need for a door that gets no service.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Hello LT&SR_NSE

Thank you for that note. I do appreciate it.

I avoid, like the plague, anything related to the cost or 'value' of an item. I find that so dependent on a person's budget, that any conversation or review of 'value' is meaningless. My view of price or value tells the reader more about my budget than the item.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

I thought to see how my new LMR sheep wagon looked loaded. 

6 sheep come with R60165, but this really is far too few sheep. 3 double decked wagons means I must populate 6 floors. The provided 6 sheep yield one per floor. That is simply not enough.

The LMR originally charged 8d/sheep, but later moved to a flat charge per wagon of £1, or ~30 sheep. Although correct, I was not sure I could pack 30 into a wagon. I purchased 1 pack of R7122 Sheep, 10 sheep, in order trial populate 1 wagon. Total sheep on hand: 16.

For the sheep to stand in the wagon, it is clear that the sheep need to be glued down. I did not want to glue the sheep directly to the wagon floor. Non-reversable without damage.

Using a piece of thin wood veneer, I cut two rectangles 57mm × 21 mm. The wood veneer will look the part without much effort. The size fits comfortably within the wagon when assembled. I then applied some gel cyanoacrylate to each hoof and placed some sheep on the wood veneer. I got 7 sheep to fit reasonably per floor. There is room, I may try more sheep in going forward.  

With the glue dried and the sheep adhered, I placed them inside and clipped the wagon back together, making sure the wood veneer floor wasn't trapped. 

From 3 feet away, by eye, they look every bit the part. Here is a close up, compare to the period image.

And in comparison to an unloaded wagon.

I am quite happy! Further, I now know how many sheep I need to populate a full rake of sheep wagons!

Bee

[threelink]

Another great thread, Bee. A bit off topic but if anyone is thinking of scratchbuilding some early wagons, the older cast mazak Triang wagon chassis appears to be a representation of a wooden chassis and carries buffers that look for all the world like the early leather bound sprung buffers. The chassis are crude and require modification because the brake gear does not line up with the wheels which themselves are crude. However, it is easy to re-wheel the wagons with nearer scale pinpoint wheelsets and to substitute different brake rigging. I have saved up a few chassis with a view to modelling some early railways, albeit in the form of a pastiche rather than a true scale model.

[Rana Temporia]

Bee, some information for Manchester around the early period of the Industrial Revolution.

I used to work for a company that did site investigation and part of my role was to dig underneath buildings and find out how they had been constructed as most had no records. The usual method of construction was to dig a trench, build a brick foundation that was wider at the bottom laid direct onto the bedrock (yellow or red sandstone) or hard red clay that lies beneath most of Manchester City Centre. The trench was then backfilled with whatever they had to hand, ash, rubbish and lots and lots of oyster shells that were the peasant food of this time. Before the Manchester Ship Canal was built barges could sail up the Rivers Mersey and Irwell straight into the centre of Manchester and bring seafood in vast quantities. This changed with the construction of weirs, and for a while some very low draft boats were used that could be dragged up the weirs and carry on their journeys. Lots of the old tips around Manchester are also full of oyster shells.

The River Medlock through central Manchester was also navigable up through the city centre and barges could sail up a tunnel from near Oxford Road up to near Manchester Piccadilly station where wagons could be loaded with the coal they brought. All the canals, rivers and railways in the city centre were interlinked, and there were major boatyards constructing quite large vessels in Manchester City Centre. They would make an interesting addition to a period layout. The control building in Castlefield basin looks just like a signal box!

Have a look at the Manchester Coat of Arms, the three gold stripes on the shield represent the Rivers Irwell, Irk and Medlock recognising the importance of them to the City and the ship (odd for an inland City) represents the Bridgewater Canal linking Manchester to the sea, superseded by the Manchester Ship Canal.

Another peasant food up until the Rivers were killed off was salmon. There was a report in one document I read about mill workers in Salford complaining about the amount of salmon they were being forced to eat caught by the Mill owner in the adjacent Irwell.

Possibly important to remember that the River Irwell is the divide between the Cities of Manchester and Salford. NEVER tell someone from Salford that they are in Manchester, I have made that mistake before.

[What About The Bee]

Addendum to the LMR Sheep Wagons

P.H. Reynolds made some consist style sketches of the LMR in 1834. Of course, this makes them long beyond copyright protection.

I was looking over the 2nd class consist he sketched and noticed that there is a sheep wagon in the rear. Further, Reynolds shows it being unloaded, making it possibly the only depiction of the sheep wagon with a ramp attached.  

There are two basic types of ramps. One is the board style, the other an earthen ramp. This is clearly the board style.

The image may be zoomed.  

Pulling the consist is "Liver", LMR26. We can be sure it is Liver, because it is the only Bury type locomotive on the LMR. Bury locomotives have that dome shaped firebox. Reynolds denotes the image is of 1833 in his title, Liver delivered to the LMR in 1832.

Next is a transitional tender, with the square metal box for water, replacing the wooden barrel. Note the height of the coal load, far beyond the load sizes provided for Era 1 models.

The carriage behind the tender is unknown to me. It is not the standard 2nd class, compare it to the carriage immediately behind.

Next is the standard 2nd class. The "blue" carriages modeled by Hornby, but here in brown, not blue.

Next, there are four 2nd class carriages with the round bottom doors. The seat backs could be shifted from front to back, permitting multiple rows of passengers to all face the same way, just as depicted!  

Behind that, there is the slat side wagon, slightly obscured by the red circle. I have been drafting this model in CAD. Interestingly, it appears as if cargo is being loaded into the slat side wagon with a small overhead crane.

Behind that is the sheep wagon, previously noted, and last is a horse wagon.

Of further note is the mixing of 2nd class carriages with freight and livestock. All of the other consist depictions, by Ackermann, Crane, Austen, Freeling and Walker split the consist depictions into one of four classes: 1st Class Trains (passenger) , 2nd Class Trains (passenger), mixed freight trains and livestock trains.  

I thought to update the review with this note, keeping the information under the same heading.

Bee

[What About The Bee]

5 October 1831

The LMR advises that the conveyance of sheep will commence

[JJ73]

W😮W - what a lot to read - interesting that how far Locos & Rolling stock have come over the decades!!! 🚂

[What About The Bee]

I do believe in covering all the details JJ!

Bee