BobStan Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hi guys Wonder if anyone may advice me I'm planning a layout which will probably have around 100 to 120 meters of track and maybe up to around 12 locos ( maybe 4 or 5 operating per time ) Although I will fit an under board feed wire with droppers, do you know if the Elite will deliver enough power or will I need to have supplemental power supply ? Thanks for any help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I would say you will need to seperate the layout into seperate isolated sections and use a booster. I also suggest that as you are planning a large layout that you do lots of research before you start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 The Elite will power virtually any size of layout. The limiting factor is the number of locos that will be running and the Elite can power upto 10 modern models. Older locos will take more power and you may be limited to maybe 4 or 5. For a large layout you will need to fit a bus main and droppers. A bus main is a heavy duty pair of wires under the baseboard to carry the power to all parts of the track so that you aren't relying on the rails and fishplates to carry all the current and to overcome the resistance. Lighter wires are attached to the bus main and soldered to the rails, preferably to each and every piece of track for the utmost reliability. Breaking the layout into sections powered by boosters is a useful way of ensuring that the whole layout doesn't shut down if there is a short circuit in one section and also allows for more locos to be run at the same time. Have a look at this site http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Hi Your Elite will power the whole layout with its 3.0Amps to track output. But by sectioning it and using either a DCC Booster to feed a section or alternatively use electronic overload cut out devices to protect a section (not a Hornby product!) you can prevent total power shut down if and when a short circuit does occur. Note, when making 'sections' sometimes referred to as 'Zones' or 'Power Districts' you MUST fit insulated rail joiners (IRJs) to all rails leading into and all those leading out of the section and use a separate feed bus pair of wires which are taken from the Output of the Booster or the cut-out device, not the main bus pair of wires. If your DCC power bus wires are of ample wire size then the Elite will happily control the whole layout without anything else. But be warned then about the short and shut down issues. On a layout of the size you're considering I would be using 2.5mm solid wire or 50/0.2mm flexible wire for the power bus wires. Then use 32/0.2mm wires for the short distance from the Elites Track terminals to the connection place onto the bus wires, as you probably wont get 50/02mm wire into the Elites terminals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 22, 2012 Author Share Posted November 22, 2012 Thanks for the replies gents Just a bit confused about splitting the layout into Zones If that means for instance I have 3 separately powered Zones ( 1 from the Elite and 2 from other sources ) How do the 2 other zones pick up DCC signals from the Elite ? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 BobStan said: Thanks for the replies gents Just a bit confused about splitting the layout into Zones If that means for instance I have 3 separately powered Zones ( 1 from the Elite and 2 from other sources ) How do the 2 other zones pick up DCC signals from the Elite ? Bob Hi Bob If you use a Hornby Booster it has its own dedicated power supply plus it connects to the DCC console powered bus or rails or via a special Xpressnet data cable directly to the Elites XpressNet port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Thanks flashbang your so helpfull I will try why you sujest Cheers Bob Flashbang said: BobStan said: Thanks for the replies gents Just a bit confused about splitting the layout into Zones If that means for instance I have 3 separately powered Zones ( 1 from the Elite and 2 from other sources ) How do the 2 other zones pick up DCC signals from the Elite ? Bob Hi Bob If you use a Hornby Booster it has its own dedicated power supply plus it connects to the DCC console powered bus or rails or via a special Xpressnet data cable directly to the Elites XpressNet port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincookie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Just reading the post, don't forget the elite has its own booster built in, so if you wanted 3 zones you should be able to use that as 1, the elite itself for 1, and then you need 1 more, unless my understanding of the elite's boster is incorrect. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 captaincookie said: Just reading the post, don't forget the elite has its own booster built in, so if you wanted 3 zones you should be able to use that as 1, the elite itself for 1, and then you need 1 more, unless my understanding of the elite's boster is incorrect. Ian Yes you do have it slightly confused. The booster in the Elite provides the power to the track connected to the "Track" connections on the rear of the Elite. So, using your example, for 3 zones you would need the Elite and 2 additional boosters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Could it be because the Americans seem to call a controller a 'booster'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thanks gents So I can connect 2 boosters to the Elite then Correct ? Think I will start with one till I get my head around it and see how I do for power Maybe add a third one if need be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi You can connect as many Boosters as you like. There is no limit! Each booster powers its own totally isolated rails (Isolated from all other feeds). The Hornby Booster takes its data in one of two options. Connection to the DCC bus or rails fed by the main console (e.g an Elite) or by a special data cable connecting to the XpressNet socket. The Hornby Booster has two XpressNet sockets - Input and an output socket which goes to the next booster as needed. Note; a Booster does not increase the power output of the main DCC console e.g. 3.0Amp for the Elite. It simply powers a section of track(s) and these are powered from a totally separate power supply, its just the data feed that's connected to the main DCC console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi Flash Oh that is so very helpful thank you very much for that I feel a lot more confident now as I am planning quite a comprehensive layout Cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 BobStan said: Hi Flash Oh that is so very helpful thank you very much for that I feel a lot more confident now as I am planning quite a comprehensive layout Cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunsen Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Hi Bobstan I have a large loft layout that must be approaching 100 metres of track at least and have over 20 lococs with up to 5 or 6 running at any one time. I have the Select connected to the Elite running of the Elite 4amp power supply.For several years I have run it without any additional wiring/boosters/sections/bus stops etc(did not know what they meant when I started out ) ,just two wire from the Elite to the track and it works quite well.So if your eletrical knowlegde like mine is not that good then you do not need any extra wiring at all. The only downside is if a loco shorts out then all the locos stop. It is only recently that I have started to wire in the 50 points that whilst under the baseboards I have started to add some "bus stop" wiring in to the furthest sidings but to be honest I have not noticed any difference.I clean the track on a regular basis and when I have checked the voltage to all the track and sidings it nearly always is constant.If a small area of track becomes "dead" then a quick clean is usually enough to suffice. I started my ambitious layout with no prior knowledge and the Elite and DCC has been excellent for me its its simplicity as you do not have to add extra wiring if you do not want/need to good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobStan Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hi Bunsen Oh that is so reassuring thank you Hmm I do have little knowledge in the electric side too but am very methodical and critical about cleanliness and bits like fish plates been a tight fit etc So hopefully I'm in with a chance Bob Bunsen said: Hi Bobstan I have a large loft layout that must be approaching 100 metres of track at least and have over 20 lococs with up to 5 or 6 running at any one time. I have the Select connected to the Elite running of the Elite 4amp power supply.For several years I have run it without any additional wiring/boosters/sections/bus stops etc(did not know what they meant when I started out ) ,just two wire from the Elite to the track and it works quite well.So if your eletrical knowlegde like mine is not that good then you do not need any extra wiring at all. The only downside is if a loco shorts out then all the locos stop. It is only recently that I have started to wire in the 50 points that whilst under the baseboards I have started to add some "bus stop" wiring in to the furthest sidings but to be honest I have not noticed any difference.I clean the track on a regular basis and when I have checked the voltage to all the track and sidings it nearly always is constant.If a small area of track becomes "dead" then a quick clean is usually enough to suffice. I started my ambitious layout with no prior knowledge and the Elite and DCC has been excellent for me its its simplicity as you do not have to add extra wiring if you do not want/need to good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregd99 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 From what I can understand the physical size of the layout does not load the power supply - subject to good feeders - and the benefits of a booster could be:- 1. simultaneous operation (movement) of more than 4-5 locos (note a booster only helps of the locos are distributed across the power regions) 2. protection of one part of a layout from faults on another part. Do others see any more benefits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 This thread has come at a good time for me and has been quite informative. I am planning an 8x8 foot layout with four or five circuits tops and maybe only three. There will a lot of engines on track though not all running at the same time! So, if I wire up the Elite with three boosters, say, one for each circuit on a four circuit layout (forget overkill for the moment as this is just a query), does that mean if one short occurs on one circuit the other three will operate as normal and just carry on? If there are crossovers involved where the short is does that proclude any engine using the crossover if the short is on a circuit using it or can that engine use the crossover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I wouldn't have thought that you need even consider boosters, AC. My layout is about 10 and a half by seven feet, I have four main lines plus a load of sound locos standing around and have no problem with just the Elite on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd123 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks everyone for a helpful debate. I also have four circuits around the loft, maybe 10x6foot. I have a select and find the trains are running quite slow. Will simply switching from a Select to an Elite improve matters? I don't fancy soldering at this point as not sure how my layout will change once scenery is considered etc. Also do stationery DCC locos reduce the power considerably or just moving locos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd123 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Thanks everyone for a helpful debate. I also have four circuits around the loft, maybe 10x6foot. I have a select and find the trains are running quite slow. Will simply switching from a Select to an Elite improve matters? I don't fancy soldering at this point as not sure how my layout will change once scenery is considered etc. Also do stationery DCC locos reduce the power considerably or just moving locos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 dd123 said: Thanks everyone for a helpful debate. I also have four circuits around the loft, maybe 10x6foot. I have a select and find the trains are running quite slow. Will simply switching from a Select to an Elite improve matters? I don't fancy soldering at this point as not sure how my layout will change once scenery is considered etc. Also do stationery DCC locos reduce the power considerably or just moving locos? Switching from a Select to an Elite (assuming the basic 1.0Amp power unit is being used) will increase track current available from 1.0 to 3.0Amp. However this shouldn't make any discernible difference. The immediate and noticeable differences will be the increased address number range available up to 9999 from 59, increased Function numbers available up form 9 to 28 and the ability to both read and write CVs values. The additional current to track available will allow more locos to be run at once. But keeping track of them is the main issue, if PC control is not being used! A station non sound loco will consume around 15 to 25 milliamp. But if it has its lights on or sounds on then that will of course increase. See this reply I recently posted.... https://www.hornby.com/forums/hornby-forums/hornby-digital/3830/?page=1#post43460 Wiring the layout with a reasonable large wire sized DCC Bus pair of wires and connecting smaller Dropper wires to as many sections of rails will help both power and data transfer around the layout, rather than relying on the metal rail joiners and point clips! Bus wire of 32/0.2mm Equipment wire is one of the most commonly used sizes, with droppers of 16/0.2mm. Larger bus wires sizes can be used without harm but smaller wire sizes should really be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashbang Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Oh how I wish this forum had an Edit your own post option! Errors have got in - Sorry! Line 3 Should read... Function numbers available up from 9 to 28 and.... Line 7 should read... A stationary non sound loco will consume around 15 to 25 milliamp. But.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 AC, no one answered your hypothetical with 4 loops and crossovers all in separate zones. Yes, if you run a loco over a crossover into a shorted zone, you will short the zone it is coming from too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Graskie said: I wouldn't have thought that you need even consider boosters, AC. My layout is about 10 and a half by seven feet, I have four main lines plus a load of sound locos standing around and have no problem with just the Elite on its own. Thanks for your reply Graskie. I had often wondered about how big a layout you could actually stretch to with the Elite and it seems one can go fairly large without the real need to boost everything. Oh I know about single failure etc (believe me, building servers etc forces you to know!) but I'm not too fussed about that. Safety first as they say... :-) Besides, the cost of the boosters is high and three would be a tad costly. I appreciate your answer and will go with just the Elite running from a laptop etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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