Going Spare Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 According to service sheet 388B, R3250 already has an 8-pin decoder socket and provision for a speaker in the tender and has the wired plug connection between loco and tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, Deem said: @ColinB any chance you have info regarding changing the similar to Flying Scotsman i.e. Hornby R3250? Doesn't R3250 already have the decoder in the tender? The answer to the conversion is yes I have converted my A3s and A4s to have the decoder in the tender. Again the big issue is the weight as it needs modifying to allow for the speaker arrangement in the tender. Anyway to do it you can either cut a rectangular hole in your existing tender to fit the 4 pin socket or alternatively buy a new tender bottom. Now previously you could buy an A3 tender bottom from the newer loco, but last time I looked they were all sold out. As the A3s, A4s and W1s have similar tenders the base of a W1 will do, but just do a search for A3, A4 or W1 tender bottoms. The other thing to note is yours has painted axle boxes looking at it on the web. The weight I cut slots in the original one so it misses the speaker mounts and if you want the decoder to sit nicely on it a wide slot so the decoder socket sits low down. I use M4 posts threaded with M2 (you get those from China via EBay) pushed into drilled holes in the tender. You can then mount the decoder socket properly. You have to cut into the weight as there generally isn't enough headroom for the decoder header because of the tender features. You should be able to use the old tender bottom, with a bit cut off to miss the socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 3 Author Share Posted July 3 Sorry guys, @Going Spare and @ColinB it must be old age with regrettably issue of memory Loss. What I meant to ask was older model such as R3086. R3086 is A1 model so, does your suggestion still apply to A1 or for A1 do you have another suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 18 minutes ago, Deem said: Sorry guys, @Going Spare and @ColinB it must be old age with regrettably issue of memory Loss. What I meant to ask was older model such as R3086. R3086 is A1 model so, does your suggestion still apply to A1 or for A1 do you have another suggestion. Looking at the web it says it is a Railroad Flying Scotsman. The tender on a Railroad A1/A3/A4 is different the mounting point to screw the tender together is different. If you look at the other tender bottoms for A1/A3/W1 you will notice it has a boss at the back. The Railroad one doesn't it just has a hole which a boss on the tender bottom pushes through. Do you know when I was looking for the non Railroad all that popped up were the Railroad ones. Now I am looking for Railroad ones I can't find them, I think X7632 the Thompson A2 should work or a Mallard Railroad Sound one. Lendons have a Tornedo one X6340 which should be perfect, it is also a lot cheaper. I am pretty sure that is what I used. When you take your existing tender apart check to see if I am right about the mount pushing through from the tender bottom. Hornby do so many different combinations is is difficult to predict. I don't have that loco so I can't check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 17 hours ago, ColinB said: Looking at the web it says it is a Railroad Flying Scotsman. The tender on a Railroad A1/A3/A4 is different the mounting point to screw the tender together is different. If you look at the other tender bottoms for A1/A3/W1 you will notice it has a boss at the back. The Railroad one doesn't it just has a hole which a boss on the tender bottom pushes through. Do you know when I was looking for the non Railroad all that popped up were the Railroad ones. Now I am looking for Railroad ones I can't find them, I think X7632 the Thompson A2 should work or a Mallard Railroad Sound one. Lendons have a Tornedo one X6340 which should be perfect, it is also a lot cheaper. I am pretty sure that is what I used. When you take your existing tender apart check to see if I am right about the mount pushing through from the tender bottom. Hornby do so many different combinations is is difficult to predict. I don't have that loco so I can't check. No worries @ColinB, you have already done quite a lot and I really appreciate your help. I will check both chassis you mentioned above to see which is closest to R3086 Tender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 On 02/07/2024 at 12:54, ColinB said: I think you might have an issue with your old tender fitting the new tender base, they moved the mounting points. Mind you there are about 3 types of tenders, so I could be wrong. Have a look at Road and Rails, they do decent flat 8 ohm speakers that sound and fit better. Yes it does look like the tender mounts have been moved, but that not the main problem right now. There is no weight included in the chassis pack for the rebuilt west country/BoB pack, and the Hornby service sheet does not have a number for it: service sheet And for the Britannia, the speaker mounting isnt includerd or part listed service sheet It also doesn't help the speaker is listed as part X9999 on the service sheet, but apparently that part number are coupling hooks ! not very clear this 🤣 I think I best look at how far I can get with what I have before working out what else I need !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 18 hours ago, Too Tall said: Yes it does look like the tender mounts have been moved, but that not the main problem right now. There is no weight included in the chassis pack for the rebuilt west country/BoB pack, and the Hornby service sheet does not have a number for it: service sheet And for the Britannia, the speaker mounting isnt includerd or part listed service sheet It also doesn't help the speaker is listed as part X9999 on the service sheet, but apparently that part number are coupling hooks ! not very clear this 🤣 I think I best look at how far I can get with what I have before working out what else I need !! I know about the weight I have been complaining about that for ages, they do it on all their speaker based tenders, why defeats me. You will have to make something up. As to the speaker buy an 8 ohm one from Road and Rails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 The reason I mentioned the speaker is because there is a mounting piece which also does not have a number, I am guessing maybe it came with the speaker ? but no matter I have a few speakers here so will get something sorted no probs 😊 The weight .... well I took a leaf from your book, and ordered a princess complete chassis as an eyeball of the pic looks like it may work on my tender with a little work. @ColinB thank you for your advice and sharing your knowledge 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 8 hours ago, Too Tall said: The reason I mentioned the speaker is because there is a mounting piece which also does not have a number, I am guessing maybe it came with the speaker ? but no matter I have a few speakers here so will get something sorted no probs 😊 The weight .... well I took a leaf from your book, and ordered a princess complete chassis as an eyeball of the pic looks like it may work on my tender with a little work. @ColinB thank you for your advice and sharing your knowledge 👍 The princess tender weight works if you use you old tender bottom and cut the hole for the socket in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 (edited) Fired up the 3D printer this morning: One Britannia tender speaker mount and adaptor plate to mount a 21 pin pcb done. And the mounting to accommodate the different tender base screws location on the dcc ready chassis done. This will be epoxied into the tender and the old mounts cut out to make room for the DCC bits and weight. Just some fiddly soldering to do when i next get time ! Will the old sprung buffers just pull out and push back in the new tender or is there a knack ? Edited July 7 by Too Tall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Too Tall said: Will the old sprung buffers just pull out and push back in the new tender or is there a knack ? They tend to have a tiny e-clip holding a washer against the spring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 2 hours ago, Too Tall said: Fired up the 3D printer this morning: One Britannia tender speaker mount and adaptor plate to mount a 21 pin pcb done. And the mounting to accommodate the different tender base screws location on the dcc ready chassis done. This will be epoxied into the tender and the old mounts cut out to make room for the DCC bits and weight. Just some fiddly soldering to do when i next get time ! Will the old sprung buffers just pull out and push back in the new tender or is there a knack ? Very neat work, I wish I have the 3D printer, saving some money to buy the 3D printer but each time I see something going cheap I dip into that saving to buy, for example, yesterday, ordered Hornby R30126 W1 Hush Hush, smoke lifting cowl model which I got it for £164.99 included postage. When you try to remove the buffers, do try, if you can, take some pictures because I waiting to get 3 chassis for various FS. I would be handy if you could share your experience. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, 96RAF said: They tend to have a tiny e-clip holding a washer against the spring. Thanks @96RAF for the tip to remove the buffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 @Too Tall if it's not too much to ask, what is this between the chassis, speaker. Is it metal plate or some kind of plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 5 hours ago, 96RAF said: They tend to have a tiny e-clip holding a washer against the spring. Behind the buffer beam I take it ? 2 hours ago, Deem said: @Too Tall if it's not too much to ask, what is this between the chassis, speaker. Is it metal plate or some kind of plastic Most of the flat is metal. I have superglued the 3DP speaker ring to the metal, and that has a ledge so it holds the speaker above the metal as well as in place (will use a little black tack on the speaker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 6 hours ago, 96RAF said: They tend to have a tiny e-clip holding a washer against the spring. I am sure some of the ones I have taken out rely on the tang at the end. As it is pointed it pushes in but doesn't come out very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Too Tall said: Behind the buffer beam I take it ? Most of the flat is metal. I have superglued the 3DP speaker ring to the metal, and that has a ledge so it holds the speaker above the metal as well as in place (will use a little black tack on the speaker). Where did you get that metal? As this has 4 holes and a square cut where the 4 pin socket sit below in the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 26 minutes ago, Deem said: Where did you get that metal? As this has 4 holes and a square cut where the 4 pin socket sit below in the chassis. Its part of the chassis for the sound fitted version, also has cut outs at the bottom for the speaker sound to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 1 hour ago, Too Tall said: Its part of the chassis for the sound fitted version, also has cut outs at the bottom for the speaker sound to escape. Can I know the part number and for which Loco you setting this tender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 3 hours ago, Too Tall said: Behind the buffer beam I take it ? @colinb said - I am sure some of the ones I have taken out rely on the tang at the end. As it is pointed it pushes in but doesn't come out very easily. Or they may clip in like these (spring not illustrated). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 So if no circlip visible, a tug and wiggle required 😁 14 minutes ago, Deem said: Can I know the part number and for which Loco you setting this tender? Hornby X9601M Britannia 7MT Tender Underframe Assembly With Contacts (also comes with drawbar). Going on the Britannia "Westward Ho" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 (edited) Ooops ... I meant the Britannia "Oliver Cromwell". "Westward Ho" is of course a rebuilt West Country class, and is the other one I am working on. Britannia Tender now done and currently downloading the sound file on to the HM7K decoder. A note for anyone who fancies doing the same: I used The Lais 21 pin decoder mount. The holes in the solder pads barely fits the Hornby standard wires bare, and certainly didn't when tinned. This meant just soldering to the pads, rather than feeding in the hole and soldering. It also revealed that some of the pads on the underside did not connect to the pins I had to remove and resolder some to the top pads. I would advise a different brand for those reasons. Secondly, I used the Hornby tender plugs as they have the correct mounting points etc, but you can do it cheaper with these: 4 pin micro plug and socket (pre-wired) 5 pack (compatible with Hornby X6113) | eBay They fit the standard fittings perfectly, but the wiring colours obviously do not match DCC standards. Thirdly, The Peter spares 27mm speaker is a bit louder than the stock HM7K supplied one, and in my view sounds a bit better. I would say my go to choice now when the tender has room for one. No idea how it compares to R+R ones as they didn't have 8 ohm ones when I looked. Just the Britannia loco 's wiring to sort out now, that's for another time, after that I will start on the West Country 🙂 Edited July 8 by Too Tall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 I also have received the X7585 princess complete tender. Tomorrow will attempt to install and check the wiring because if I recall I have to swap the wires in tender to change the polarity? Colour change is due to reflection from laptop lcd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Certainly cheaper and easier than buying all the bits 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Too Tall said: Certainly cheaper and easier than buying all the bits 😁 Definitely, courtesy of @ColinB Edited July 8 by Deem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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