ntpntpntp Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, What About The Bee said: Bridge rectifier is likely a part of the LED strip Ian. I wouldn't assume that at all. All the examples my son and I have used for model railway and music lighting projects have expected DC. You might have a protection diode to guard against wrong polarity, but will just block half the DCC cycle or fail to light if the DC polarity is wrong. Many of these generic LED strips are designed to be cut into short groups of 3 or 4 LEDs at designated points, so unless that protection diode is present in each sub-group you won't even have that protection. That said, if you bought the lights as a kit specifically designed for lighting a model railway coach then yes you would expect a rectifier to be included as part of the circuit, unless the kit is intended for battery operation and not track pickup. Edited July 4 by ntpntpntp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 Fair Point NTP. I certainly do not know what Ian bought or how it is configured. He did state the LEDs lit when batteries applied. Based on the kind of responses Ian provided, I am unsure that he acknowledged polarity in application. Hence why I assumed the rectifier was on the strip. But yes, bad assumption Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 20 hours ago, Going Spare said: Hornby's retail packs of 14mm disc wheelsets - R8218, R8234 and R8264 - contain fully-insulated wheelsets (neither wheel is live to the axle). As far as I can recall, only spares packs X6950 and X9096 as used on the factory-lit Mk1 coaches and Pullman cars, respectively, contain wheelsets with one wheel on each live to the axle, the intention being that both wheelsets in one bogie would pick up current from one rail while both wheelsets in the other bogie would return current to the opposite rail. If the pick-ups you are using are in contact with only one axle each, pick up and return should be successful from just one bogie if the X6950/X9096 non-insulated wheel on one wheelset is on the opposite side to its counterpart on the second wheelset. Are you sure about the wheel-set for R8218 these being the ones without the holes in the wheels cause I'm sure one side is without the rubber insulation and the other side has a metal insert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 17 hours ago, What About The Bee said: Fair Point NTP. I certainly do not know what Ian bought or how it is configured. He did state the LEDs lit when batteries applied. Based on the kind of responses Ian provided, I am unsure that he acknowledged polarity in application. Hence why I assumed the rectifier was on the strip. But yes, bad assumption Bee There is a small circuit board and capacitor on the lighting unit that i bought. But everything seems OK based on the knowledge i was given on the wheels application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 I Did notice that the metal wheels with holes which came with the coach did have insulators on both wheels but the wheels without holes have one insulator per set else the lights wouldn't have lit up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Hi Ian If you wouldn't mind, would you provide us with the link to the kit you purchased? If not the link, the name of the kit? That information may prove quite helpful to us, so that we can better help you. We will know and understand exactly what you have. Makes our task easier. Further, a future enthusiast may have the same kit, with similar issues, and so just find the solution. Thanks in advance Ian. Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 Yeah the name of the kit is called SM-1 Pre-Lighting Assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Ian-1301567 said: SM-1 Pre-Lighting Assembly hmm... I can't find that at all on ebay nor on google. Can you post a link to the item you bought - you said it was from ebay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 10 hours ago, ntpntpntp said: hmm... I can't find that at all on ebay nor on google. Can you post a link to the item you bought - you said it was from ebay? It's sold by a person called taa-29 and it's called DCC Lighting Installation Very easy Installation.Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384829275391 It includes a small keep alive to eliminate flicker. Nice! It is my understanding that a keep alive must have a bridge rectifier to properly charge. The seller also claims that it works on DC, which in my view lends further support for a bridge rectifier. In any event, thank you Ian for providing the information to us. It is appreciated. Is your issue now resolved or are there further difficulties? Bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted July 7 Author Share Posted July 7 9 hours ago, What About The Bee said: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384829275391 It includes a small keep alive to eliminate flicker. Nice! It is my understanding that a keep alive must have a bridge rectifier to properly charge. The seller also claims that it works on DC, which in my view lends further support for a bridge rectifier. In any event, thank you Ian for providing the information to us. It is appreciated. Is your issue now resolved or are there further difficulties? Bee Hi Bee, Now the wheel problem is sorted everything seems to be OK. Now is the bridge rectifier still a requirement for DCC or is this a DC concern only.As everything seems to be OK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntpntpntp Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 8 minutes ago, Ian-1301567 said: Now is the bridge rectifier still a requirement for DCC or is this a DC concern only Necessary for DC or DCC, but now we've seen the actual kit you bought and it's designed for model railway coaches it's clear that the circuit already includes rectification and a smoothing / power storage capacitor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted Monday at 10:53 Share Posted Monday at 10:53 @Ian-1301567 Hornby confirm both wheels are insulated on R8218 wheelsets. On which coach(es) did you encounter the wheelsets with only one wheel insulated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted Monday at 11:56 Author Share Posted Monday at 11:56 1 hour ago, Going Spare said: @Ian-1301567 Hornby confirm both wheels are insulated on R8218 wheelsets. On which coach(es) did you encounter the wheelsets with only one wheel insulated? It's the package of 10 pairs of R8218 Wheels that you buy from Hornby themselves one side is insulated the other isn't. I Guess its for lighting purposes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted Monday at 14:36 Share Posted Monday at 14:36 Used to be x9606 Pullman wheels that were the go-to item for coach lighting. Seemingly not listed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted Monday at 15:10 Share Posted Monday at 15:10 X9096 was the Pullman wheelsets - X9606 is a part for a Britannia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted Monday at 18:08 Author Share Posted Monday at 18:08 6 hours ago, Ian-1301567 said: It's the package of 10 pairs of R8218 Wheels that you buy from Hornby themselves one side is insulated the other isn't. I Guess its for lighting purposes. Well the one's I've been using are definitely R8218 type wheels and they light up using these wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted Monday at 18:30 Share Posted Monday at 18:30 (edited) Hi Ian Thank you for clarifying. No one is disputing your input. Clearly, one wheel is live to the axle, else the circuit would have an open / would not function. To my understanding, the specification is being confirmed internally, as there may be a technical glitch in the firmament. We will sort this, never fear! Bee Edited Monday at 18:33 by What About The Bee In the meantime, the lights function. Enjoy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-1301567 Posted Monday at 20:58 Author Share Posted Monday at 20:58 2 hours ago, What About The Bee said: Hi Ian Thank you for clarifying. No one is disputing your input. Clearly, one wheel is live to the axle, else the circuit would have an open / would not function. To my understanding, the specification is being confirmed internally, as there may be a technical glitch in the firmament. We will sort this, never fear! Bee I'm quite amazed you experienced railway modellers aren't aware that the R8218 set of 10 wheels are insulated on one side only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted Monday at 21:05 Share Posted Monday at 21:05 (edited) Depends if anyone here has used them. A lot of modellers when upgrading wheel sets may do it for a number of purposes, ie a more accurate rendition, smaller more realistic flange size etc. it takes quite a lot to just wear out a set of wheels. Older models with plastic wheel sets are prime for upgrading to steel tyred ones. I must admit I prefer making battery powered coach lighting sets. Works out about £4 a coach and very easy. 😁 Edited Monday at 21:06 by Rallymatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted Thursday at 11:27 Share Posted Thursday at 11:27 My contact at Hornby, having at first stated the officially-held view that R8218 wheelsets (and all the other retail packs) have always had both wheels insulated, has deconstructed a wheelset and now confirms that they are insulated on one side only. Although two bushes still sit between the axle and wheels, one is now made of metal. A R8234 wheelset was also disassembled and both bushes were found to be insulating. So it appears that the specification for only the R8218 14.1mm solid-disc wheels was amended and does now permit substitution for the elusive X6950 and X9096 packs for lighting feeds. Thanks to ian-1301567 for his perseverance. I have put forward the suggestion that this change is extended to other 14.1mm wheelsets where 2- or 4-hole disc wheels would be more appropriate, and perhaps even to freight stock wheelsets to give the greatest flexibility, as most if not all run in plastic axleboxes/frames. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted 21 hours ago Share Posted 21 hours ago This is the kind of stuff that drives an engineer round the bend. An engineer specifies a product, gets it quoted and vended. First samples seem just fine. In this case, both wheels insulated from the axle. Then, without bothering to mention it, the vendor changes what is supplied, to no longer compliant to specification. In this case, Going Spare, you were working under the specification that stated "Insulated wheels". Except they weren't. Even Hornby was not aware. Based on some very old comments on another train board, this has flip flopped several times now. Hornby should make up their mind and enforce that with the vendor. To be frank, I would be having a very strongly worded conversation with that vendor. Vendors should not engage in these shenanigans. At the very minimum, differently specification parts should have different product codes. The specification should be clear to us, the clients. There should be two types, as clearly, situations can arise where both wheels should be insulated, and as in Ian's case, one wheel live. Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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