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Getting the new chip to work on z21


GR77

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Have actually got it working well sort of i will get to that. The z21 TP LINK was the problem it was overriding the house WiFi as I've already explained as its out in the garden. I ran a length of cable clipped to layout with crocodile clips and used a piece of track in house,and clipped cable to it. Now the updates worked perfect and everything sorted it self out. I was able to switch to dcc and that worked but have to workout if I can add the sounds from the z21. Now the problems are as follows. Sound is on max but you can barely hear it and speed on max but barely crawls and keeps stopping on BT and DDC. Not sure about the CVs some have mentioned what is that all about any advice is appreciated. Another thing is the sound profiles there's nothing for the 4MT and the default is rubbish. 

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Posted (edited)

Just quick follow up. Have put old chip back in and it runs perfect now it's obvious the hornby chip at fault. Any advice as usual will be appreciated 

Edited by GR77
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HM7K decoders and profiles are 'tuned' to suit Hornby motors and will occasionally result in rough running in non Hornby locos (Heljan are the worst).

Perform an auto calibration exercise on the HM7K decoders in the 4MT to retune it to the characteristics of the Bachmann motor.

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Two a CVs have been mentioned but the CV29 one was in error.  The other CV, CV12 controls BT v DCC and you clearly know how to do that adjustment.

I would expect your running and sound volume problems will be fixed by correct setup.  Likely changing from default is going to fix that - see next.

Does anyone have a profile recommendation for 4MT?  Clearly using default is not working.

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35 minutes ago, SteveM6 said:

HM7K decoders and profiles are 'tuned' to suit Hornby motors and will occasionally result in rough running in non Hornby locos (Heljan are the worst).

Perform an auto calibration exercise on the HM7K decoders in the 4MT to retune it to the characteristics of the Bachmann motor.

Is this in the setup list I will look tomorrow as not seen anything that said about calibrating.

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GR77 - It's in the manual.

Fishy, nowt wrong with the default, it's 99.9% certain to be just the auto calibration that's needed. As for a suitable profile for a 4MT start by matching the number of cylinders and if possible the original operating company to get a similar whistle.

For a two cylinder like this one I would choose from 2MT, Black 5 or Britannia.

Edited by SteveM6
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3 hours ago, GR77 said:

Thanks just need to sort this auto calibration out get the thing working .

Auto-cal 101, short method.

In DCC mode and loco on a longish (2 metres) length of track, set F0 to off (directional lighting). Next write value 0 to CV149. This arms the auto-cal. Now select F0 to fire auto-cal and the loco will race off at max chat, then stop. Auto-cal is now complete and CV149 will have set itself at value 2, which is the correct running configuration. Other associated CVs will have been written to suit.

Your loco should now run much better.

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It used to be restricted to DCC control but that might have been fixed by now. Try it from the app, same method, but setting CV149 in the CV editor.

You can't run a loco on the program track as Prog output is low current, short duration, hence unsuitable for the full test.

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As a matter of interest how did you manage to fit a HM7000 into a Bachmann 4MT? I have this loco and I had difficulty fitting the smallest Zimo sound decoder into it. As to the motor control I can't remember there being that many issues with running. I did my one with a Zimo and a friends one with a LokSound.

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4 minutes ago, ColinB said:

As a matter of interest how did you manage to fit a HM7000 into a Bachmann 4MT? I have this loco and I had difficulty fitting the smallest Zimo sound decoder into it. As to the motor control I can't remember there being that many issues with running. I did my one with a Zimo and a friends one with a LokSound.

I can't remember the details (fitted too many decoders in the last year or so to recall them all) but I have HM7K decoders and powerbanks fitted to both the tender and tank versions of the 4MT. Not difficult but they do need a little ingenuity.

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53 minutes ago, ColinB said:

As a matter of interest how did you manage to fit a HM7000 into a Bachmann 4MT? I have this loco and I had difficulty fitting the smallest Zimo sound decoder into it. As to the motor control I can't remember there being that many issues with running. I did my one with a Zimo and a friends one with a LokSound.

Well this is a problemcivhave yet to sort. The old decoder which is not much smaller I had to remove smoke box door feed the wires through connect it then push the chip in, this is going back years it may have been an original hornby I can't remember. I can send photo later if you like with sizes.

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22 hours ago, GR77 said:

Have actually got it working well sort of i will get to that. The z21 TP LINK was the problem it was overriding the house WiFi as I've already explained as its out in the garden

You could switch off the auto connection in your tablet settings and manualy select the WIFI you require . Or just switch off the TP LINK the Z21 will still supply power to the track without it , it's only needed to connect your device to the Z21 .

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26 minutes ago, AV59 said:

You could switch off the auto connection in your tablet settings and manualy select the WIFI you require

That would be my suggestion.  I have a cheap tablet that gets used on our house WiFi sometimes but mostly it's for accessing a show lighting controller.  It has run the HM7000 app on occasion with my TT:120, and  I've also used it with a Z21 at an exhibition.  I've set it not to connect to any network automatically but let me choose.

Edited by ntpntpntp
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5 hours ago, 96RAF said:

It used to be restricted to DCC control but that might have been fixed by now. Try it from the app, same method, but setting CV149 in the CV editor.

Tried it on the app a couple of days ago but isn't selectable . Had to set CV149 on the Z21 programming track . Then back on the main despite setting a F0 button on the Z21 app it wouldn't trigger . So back to Hornby BT control and that worked . Bit of a faff .

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If you have smart phone and data coverage and of course enough data transfer available on your phone, you can switch off the Wi Fi and do it by using data transfer on your phone. I got the idea off New Modellers, so I checked it out with one of my HM7000 and yes it works quite well.

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Unusual that you couldn’t arm auto calibration (CV149) from the App, I have been using it that way for well over a year. You don’t need to be on BT control to change any CV settings, so you can use a phone/tablet to arm the Auto Calibrate, initiate via your set control method, refresh the CVs and the auto calibrate reverts (now) to 2 which is the running value. 

Edited by Rallymatt
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1 hour ago, Rallymatt said:

Unusual that you couldn’t arm auto calibration (CV149) from the App, I have been using it that way for well over a year. You don’t need to be on BT control to change any CV settings, so you can use a phone/tablet to arm the Auto Calibrate, initiate via your set control method, refresh the CVs and the auto calibrate reverts (now) to 2 which is the running value. 

Using the Hornby app I can go into cv settings select cv149 which gives me 3 buttons for 0 2 and 4 none of which do anything when pressed .

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CV 149 is ordinarily set to 2, you should also have options of 0 and 1, select 0 to arm  Auto Calibration, exit.

Then using whichever system to ‘drive’ with press 0 on the functions options (lights) That initiates the Auto Calibration and loco fires off at high speed for 1-2m and stops dead. That’s the motor calibrated. If you then do a CV refresh the values are populated and CV 149 will have returned to value 2. 
Note prior to running Auto Calibration you should reset all CVs to factory settings, ie CV8 full reset. 
It is worth spending a bit of time reading the manual, it seems daunting but it’s really well written and explains DCC better than any publication I have ever seen. I must admit I’m not a fan of online manuals, I like to flip back and forth with bits so I printed a copy out, I appreciate its constantly updated but it’s enough to get into the system and understand how things work with it. 

Edited by Rallymatt
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