Railmaster Overseas Purchase Policy and App Licence

[Fishmanoz]

Tim, I thought my previous posts were pretty clear in containing the answers to your questions but let me summarise for you:

 

- I am running an evaluation copy of RM. I've indicated my intention to buy it subject to further evaluation.

- I have

 

an expired eval copy on another laptop, not the one I intend to use with my layout

- I have purchased a licence to the app to run on my single iPad, nothing else. The licence conditions say it is for a single device

- I first registered the app on the

 

now expired eval copy. When I went to move it to the new eval copy, I found I couldn't as the key was already activated. By the time I discovered this, the eval copy had expired so couldn't deactivate and reactivate it. So I've emailed RM Support for assistance

 

and have yet to receive a reply.

- Since the eval copy of RM updated to v1.48, it contains 2 warnings not contained in previous versions. The first says it can only be activated on one copy of RM server. The second says if it is registered to an eval copy,

 

it can't be used after the eval copy expires. Both of these conditions are contrary to the licence under which I bought it. That clearly says it is for one device and says nothing about limitations to that relating to RM servers or expired evaluation copies.

 

 

- my post immediately above includes a copy of my latest email to RM Support as a consequence

 

I am not making a mountain out of a molehill, simply seeking to do what you yourself have said is reasonable - use one licence on one device, without

 

undue restrictions.

 

And I would appreciate your not making denigrating remarks about my intentions or the logic of my decisions. It devalues your otherwise informed technical contributions to these forums.

[LMSTim]

You have got yourself into a pickle by doing something silly. Sorry, but that is the way I see it. Who on earth is going to pay for a full version of the app to run on an evaluation version of the RailMaster program, which is also the server for the app

 

and therefore the entire means for allowing the app to work?

 

Sorry, but that's just plan daft. Surely, with 90 days, I mean ninety days! you have had enough time to evaluate RailMaster on the PC, or rather two of them, as you say. Just buy the licence

 

for RailMaster itself and your app will obviously work again.

 

It's really that straightforward.

 

You have made it more complcated than it needs to be.

 

[96RAF]

As I've said before Hornby/RM/whoever else is involved have got themselves in a right state of confusion over these licences.

It would appear that at each diversion of origin into buying/activating/amending a licence there is a different story to be

 

told.

What is difficult about this:

From square 1 or evaluation copy if you wish to buy a licence for the basic application then it should be easy, pay up and someone issues a key.

If you wish to add on - say an iPad/other handheld then purchase a

 

key from within the application and someone issues that supplementary key, which modifies the original licence scope. I did this with basic Win8 then added Media Centre without any problems.

Other than that I am bewildered by the immense variations in possible

 

licencing routes.

Rob

[LMSTim]

That'll be Media Centre from a $100billion company with a development team of 150 for it's operating system alone ... great analogy.

 

[poliss]

Yes, extremely complicated. Email a new key for different computer. Cancel previous key. Needs a $100billion company to do that.

[Fishmanoz]

To me, this is simple. I bought an RM handheld app for my iPad. The licence says it works on a single device. It doesn't in my case. I've emailed HCC and RM Support for resolution and have yet to get a reply from either.

 

The latest release of RM

 

server, purports to limit the apparent conditions of the licence under which I bought the app. Clearly they can't do this retrospectively after I've paid my money. Again I've emailed RM Support for advice and have yet to receive a reply.

 

If you wish

 

to see more detail, I have included specifics in my earlier posts on this thread, starting with the first post.

[Fishmanoz]

Let me give you an analogy, despite LMSTim being so fond of trying to shoot these down. I buy an iPad. To set it up initially, I need to plug it into an Internet enabled computer. A program called iTunes is installed on that computer. If I wish to continue

 

to get full functionality from my iPad, I need to plug it back into a computer from time to time to do backups, get updates and manage the music content on it.

 

Now imagine Apple changes it's policy and says you can only plug your iPad into the original

 

copy of iTunes on the original computer you set it up on. Otherwise you have to live with the reduced functionality. Do you think there would be an outcry around the world, or a very large outcry around the world?

 

So is this what Hornby is trying to

 

do with my handheld app? No, it's worse - they are trying to tell me I get no functionality unless I attach it to the original copy of RM, not reduced functionality.

[Fishmanoz]

In the Apple case, not only can I plug my iPad into any computer, I can also plug in my iPhone and my iPod, in fact any number of these, and I can use all of my apps across all of my devices as long they are all registered with the same iTunes account.

 

 

 

Except my RM handheld app, which you can't buy via the iTunes Store and so bypasses the usual Apple licensing provisions.

 

Now I'm not trying to say I should be able to do this. It is reasonable that if I want to run 2 handheld devices, I should

 

have to buy licences for each. However, if I want to take my trains and my single handheld around to my mates and run all of them on his layout with his copy of Railmaster, what is wrong with that?

[Fishmanoz]

Now I can imagine that LMSTim is going to tell me to stop complaining as the app was cheap. Now I agree it wasn't expensive but of around 100 apps on my iPad, some 90 of them were free. Of the ones I paid for, the RM app is the third most expensive, with

 

the second most expensive, at less then 50% more than RM, being a fully functioning equivalent of MS Office with Word, Excel and PowerPoint equivalents, all compatible in file format with the Office versions.

 

And how do they compare in usability? They

 

are infinitely better as they work and currently RM handheld doesn't.

[DCCTinker]

Post a new reply...

[DCCTinker]

Fishmanoz - I'm relatively new to all this DCC and RailMaster stuff. I am using the Elite, with RailMaster and the app on two devices.

 

Why should Hornby not link the app to a particular copy of RailMaster. Why should they make it available for use

 

on any different RailMasters when the vast majority of users have one RailMaster.

 

I have to agree with LMSTIM on this one. I think you are being unreasonable. You want to make things much more complex than they need to be.

 

That's my tuppence

 

worth!

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Hi DCCTinker, I actually welcome someone with a contrary view as it ensures all get a chance to evaluate a range of views.

 

On your point about most only having single copies of RM, you might check out the recent spirited thread where many discussed

 

the merits of Hornby's full price licensing policy on multiple copies of RM, indicating there are many out there who want more then one copy.

 

And despite my disagreeing with your view that it is reasonable to link the app to a single copy of RM, this

 

is not my point. My point is that this wasn't the licensing conditions under which I bought it. There was nothing that I saw in the licence that said there was such a restriction and therefore they shouldn't impose such a condition.

[LMSTim]

So you want your apps to work on other peoples' RailMasters? Can't see why Hornby should do all the work required to allow that. I would also imagine it would be a licensing nightmare.

 

It is not a "restriction" as you put it. You can't say that

 

just because Hornby HAVEN'T mentioned it that it must be allowed to do it. That is a non-argument.

 

I'd like my car to be able to fly, but you know, nowehere in the manual or terms and conditions can I say anythung that says "This vehicle cannot fly",

 

so surely it must fly - a wild analogy but it explains what you expect of Hornby. And my toaster - I can't see where it says "This toaster cannot make bread". I could go on and on.

 

And before you say what you think might be "reasonable" ... I can tell

 

you, as somebody with plenty of legal exprience, that your argument would fail on the "reasonableness" test in law.

 

Your argument is flawed in practice and in law. I also believe it is unreasonable, which is why you have had no support in it.

 

For

 

the vast minority of users it would, agree, be a nice thing to be able to take your hand-helds and 'plug' them into friends' layouts, but it is unreasonable to 'expect' it.

 

Perhaps if you asked Hornby nicely, instead of ramrodding them, they may build

 

the facility into their future plans.

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Tim, we can trade your legal experience with my post graduate and practical Intellectual Property law and International Trade law if you like, but it won't get us far.

 

What I want is for the app I bought on my iPad to work with the RM on my laptop,

 

or my laptops if I have copies on more than one. Currently it doesn't.

[96RAF]

LMSTim said:

So you want your apps to work on other peoples' RailMasters? Can't see why Hornby should do all the work required to allow that. I would also imagine it would be a licensing nightmare.

It is not a "restriction" as you

put it. You can't say that just because Hornby HAVEN'T mentioned it that it must be allowed to do it. That is a non-argument.

I'd like my car to be able to fly, but you know, nowehere in the manual or terms and conditions can I say anythung that says

"This vehicle cannot fly", so surely it must fly - a wild analogy but it explains what you expect of Hornby. And my toaster - I can't see where it says "This toaster cannot make bread". I could go on and on.

And before you say what you think might be

"reasonable" ... I can tell you, as somebody with plenty of legal exprience, that your argument would fail on the "reasonableness" test in law.

Your argument is flawed in practice and in law. I also believe it is unreasonable, which is why you have

had no support in it.

For the vast minority of users it would, agree, be a nice thing to be able to take your hand-helds and 'plug' them into friends' layouts, but it is unreasonable to 'expect' it.

Perhaps if you asked Hornby nicely, instead

of ramrodding them, they may build the facility into their future plans.

If you want silly Ts&Cs, remember a couple of famous cases in US that led to 'sue for compo' syndrome that overruled common sense;
A woman put her poodle in

a microwave and got compo 'cos the book didn't say not to. Now the book says no animals, etc.
Someone spilled coffee over themselves 'cos the paper cup was too hot to hold and didn't mention it may be hot and got compo. Now you get an outer sleeve and

a printed hot warning.

Flying cars - didn't stop the Dukes of Hazzard.

Back to the main argument: having bought a proper licence for your hand-held why should you not be able to use it on someone else's properly licenced RM, such as down the

club or at your mates. Being handheld suggests portable to me. Usually a licence will say it can only be used on one 'pc' at a time and I presume the app resides on the handheld not the parent 'pc'. The subject of one licence interfacing with another appears

to be getting overly complex.
Rob

[96RAF]

Sorry I meant to write '...why should you not be able to use it in conjunction with someone else's properly licenced...'

Rob

[poliss]

The legend of the microwaved pet. (Before microwaves it was an ordinary oven.)

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp

The scalding hot coffee case.

http://www.caoc.org/index.cfm?pg=facts

[Fishmanoz]

It would seem that the series of emails I have been sending to RM Support did not reach them. However, yesterday I took the step of emailing from within the program. Even though this address seems to be the same as the one I was sending to previously,

 

this email received immediate confirmation and later today a reply.

 

This reply says in part:

 

"It is most unusual for somebody to want to activate the RailMaster HandHeld app on an evaluation version of RailMaster. There is a daily count-down

 

timer on RailMaster and the message, which appears every time you start RailMaster, states that it is an evaluation and will cease to operate at the end of the expiration period. We believe it is reasonable to expect that when the RailMaster software ceases

 

to function at the end of the evaluation period that the built in server function also ceases to operate and therefore the ability to process requests from hand-held devices, whether they are paid for or not. It is also reasonable to expect that, at some point,

 

a person who has paid for the RailMaster HandHeld app will also pay for the RailMaster main license at some point soon.

 

You mention that you are going to purchase the RailMaster software so this is simple enough to transfer the app license to another

 

PC if you so wish. This is all on the PDF guide, however we shall detail it for you now.

 

Using the RailMaster Activation Key from your purchased copy of RailMaster, simply activate the copy of RailMaster on the PC on which the RailMaster HandHeld app

 

is activated. Within the About screen you are able to then deactivate the RailMaster HandHeld app license and activate on another PC. You can also deactivate RailMaster itself and activate on another PC too. The licenses for all HandHeld apps as well as RailMaster

 

itself can be activated and deactivated at will and there is no limit to the number of times this can be done."

 

So it would seem to be a simple process available from within RM for the app to be tansferred from one RM server to another simply through

 

the de-activation/activation process available in the program.

 

Consequently, I can achieve what I was trying to achieve, despite some thinking this was unreasonable.

 

[LMSTim]

It appears you were sending your emails to the wrong address, then. The support guys always respond in a timely fashion.

 

And it seems they have been saying what the rest of us were .... but there is no possibility that you could have been wrong,

 

and making a mountain out of a mole hill. Perish the thought.

 

[DCCTinker]

Ha, ha Fishmanoz. Bet you feel like a right plonker after all the moaning, and for nothing. All you had to do was ask them, instead of ranting that it can't do it :)

 

And you didn't even use the help request until now. They built that function in

 

specifically for Railmaster issues and you didn't use it until now. Sheesh.

 

You somehow have a gift for making everybody else appear wrong, when you are the one in the wrong!

 

I wonder what else it will be now .... RailMaster should also do spreadsheets.

 

It doesn't say that it can't so I want my money back! Ha, ha.

 

[poliss]

Was it all detailed on the PDF guide Fishy?

[DaveAus]

FMoz I had email addy issues - I cut and pasted from the post below. Apparently suppport (3 p's) is a legitimate address but one they very rarely look at so you don't get a rejected message. support (2 p's) works fine.

 

LMSTim said:

 

DaveAus

 

why don't you email the support team. They normally respond very quickly.

suppport@rail-master.com

 

wiggy - when it ends the program exits or you can buy another copy and enter the key.

I think they are working on a licensing system for more than

 

one PC but it's complicated.

[Fishmanoz]

Dear TnT (Tim and Tinker), there appears to be something strange going on about email addresses. My original email to RM support was generated by hitting reply to their email to me sending the app activation key. All they have replied to is the one from

 

the help page in the app. I've now sent another help page request to see if they received further emails from me yesterday in reply to their response and I will report back here when I know more.

 

And before you feel the need to send more disparaging

 

emails about molehills and plonkers, may I note that the features I was looking for, and which you both told me were unreasonable to expect, are in fact features in the server program and the app.

 

Poliss, yes, the guide does contain the information

 

on activation and de-activation. You have to read both the app guide and the RM server guide to get the full story. The problem I had though was that my app was activated on a since expired eval copy of RM, so I couldn't get into it to do the de-activate/activate

 

thing. The only way around this is to buy the program, receive the key and activate the eval version. Then you can de-activate the app, de-activate the server program, then re-activate both elsewhere, as RM Support told me and I have reported above.

 

Interesting

 

too as I just read the RM Server guide in detail, and it says that you can purchase RM server online from within the program and receive your key by email. This is the purchase method that DaveAus was unable to do and Tim said no one can do. In that case,

 

why does the guide say you can? This was the reason for my previous request concerning an apparently different overseas purchase policy.

[Fishmanoz]

The plot thickens in that I have already within minutes received an acknowledgement of my latest request from within the program so should have an answer soon. I haven't received any acknowledgements from my replies to them.

[Fishmanoz]

RM Support now have all my emails. I still cannot figure how some went astray as all have the same correct address.

They have confirmed that the feature to buy out of the program itself, as described in the manual, is yet to be implemented. As we already

 

knew, your only choice is to buy a physical copy of the CD, although you don't need to even unwrap the CD if you have installed the evaluation version, just activate via the key that comes with the CD. In fact, installing the CD will just make RM revert to

 

an earlier version after which it will have to update itself again.