Airband1 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I managed to obtain a couple of point decoders from eBay advertised as 8216 but on the back it had the code 50/07 On the back which I understand someone has stated that these have been labeled wrongly and are in fact 8247,s the problem is I have tried to program them as per instructions with the leaflet that came with them and the elite manual that I have but they dont seem to work is there any way to test that the decoders are not at fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 For a start, are you using the latest soft copy of the Elite manual you can download from this site? I don't believe a hard copy exists for the latest v1.41 firmware update. Snyway, you could try both the 8216 and 8247 programming methods to see if either will work. If still no luck, ring HCC about possible diagnosis and repair, or simply return to the seller as not working. The units around have been shown to be quite unreliable, which probably explains the long period of no supply while the design and manufacturer are sorted out. Personally I believe there are much better decoders around now, proven in a reverse sort of way by discussions of a number of them in these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_A Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The Elite manual on the site is the latest version. (1.41) I would recommend the ESU SwitchPilot (Hornby seem happy to discuss this as has been mentioned in other Forums and accomodated for in RailMaster. It is a tricky beast to programme, but not impossible, so here is a summary of what will work (2 different methods) ESU SwitchPilot programming Method 1: Programming with RailMaster: 1. Connect track ‘A’ to red ‘PROGRAMME’ output of the Elite 2. Connect track ‘B’ to black ‘PROGRAMME’ output of the Elite 3. Connect power ‘A’ to red ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite 4. Connect power ‘B’ to black ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite It is important the polarity of the two sets of wires going to the ‘TRACK’ and ‘PROG’ outputs match or it will not work. Ignore any message to the contrary in RailMaster! Attach a point motor to port 1 of the SwitchPilot or it won't program. Place ESU switch in middle 'User' position Programme using RailMaster (select ESU SwitchPilot from the drop down menu) Method 2: ESU in ‘Learn’ mode: 1. Connect ‘power A’ and ‘track B’ together to the red ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite 2. Connect ‘power B’ and ‘track B’ together to the black ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite 3. Set the first point and number up in RailMaster (1,5,9 etc.) 4. Connect at least 1 point motor or load as described in the ESU instructions to point 1 connection on the ESU 5. Put the ESU switch in the middle 'User' position, (pulsed output) for the more normal solenoid operated point motors or ‘k84’ for motorised points, lights etc. (output always on) 6. Press the ESU ‘learn’ button until the LED only just starts to flash and then flashes slowly. (Note there are two flashing modes, slow flash which allows learn mode to work from the Elite as well as RailMaster, and quick flashing which then means the ESU can only be programmed via RailMaster). 7. Click on the RailMaster screen the point or light you want to change and that will set the corresponding point number on the ESU. So if you use point / port 1, the other point outputs will be 2, 3, 4, if you start at 5, they will be 6, 7, 8 and so on. To programme this way by the Elite itself, then the method is just the same, you simply operate point 1, 5, 9 etc. from the Elite as per the accessory operating instructions. Note the LED will stop flashing once the programming is accepted. Leave the ‘User’ switch in ‘User’ for solenoid points or ‘k84’ for motorised points or lights. Don't use ‘k83’ as the output pulse is too long and will eventually destroy solenoid point motors. Finally: Once programmed either: 1. Connect ‘track A’ and ‘power A’ together and ‘track B’ and ‘power B’ together then to the ‘TRACK’ outputs of the Elite or the track / DCC bus. Or: 2. Connect ‘power A’ and ‘power B’ to a suitable 4 amp power supply, and ‘track A’ and ‘track B’ to the ‘TRACK’ outputs of the Elite or the track itself / DCC bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Why not just use one of the simple to program ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_A Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Easy enough when you know how. What alternatives are available, easier, and only £22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Michael_A said: .... and only £22? Thanks. I am looking forward to following your guide to programming them - I bought 2 of the £22 ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Michael_A said: Easy enough when you know how. What alternatives are available, easier, and only £22? One alternative is the DCC Concepts ADS-8 which handles 8 points at less than double the price from the same supplier. Programming consists of connecting to track, move the decoder switch to learn mode, throw the point you want it to control, move switch back to run mode and you are done. Sound simpler and cheaper? There are others too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_A Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Thanks, I wil lgive them a try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Fishmanoz said: Michael_A said: Easy enough when you know how. What alternatives are available, easier, and only £22? One alternative is the DCC Concepts ADS-8 which handles 8 points at less than double the price from the same supplier. Programming consists of connecting to track, move the decoder switch to learn mode, throw the point you want it to control, move switch back to run mode and you are done. Sound simpler and cheaper? There are others too. I have recently installed 3 ADS-8's and I have 2 more on order from Liverpool. Another great advantage is that each of the 8 decoders has its own capacitor discharge unit, so there is no issue with cdu recharge time when throwing points. I am highly delighted with their performance as the cdu seems to provide an excellent 'kick' when fired. The only disadvantage which I think is worth mentioning is the fact that there are 8 decoders on the one board. The three which I have installed already are in places on my layout where there are 8 points each available. But the two I have on order are for points which are in smaller geographical groups. Placement of an ADS8 will have to be between two smaller groups of points with longer wiring to the points as a result. I am waiting for someone to say that they have successfully cut an ADS8 into two to make two 4 decoder units! Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 You could ask Richard at DCC Concepts what he thinks about slicing up his products. I suspect if you were careful, it would be ok, but don't expect his usual warranty if you do. With the exception of the extra CDU capacitors on the AD-S8, all his designs for this,the AD1 and AD4 are the same but with 4 or 8 AD1s side by side on the larger boards. The supply connections are commoner across the bigger boards but there are connections on each anyway. But worth the trouble when the alternative is just a few long wires of appropriate gauge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 That should say commoned, not commoner too. No class problems around here, you don't think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St1ngr4y Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 There may be a demand for an ADS-4, if they don't do one already, for the reasons I mentioned. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband1 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 [reply]Airband1 said: I managed to obtain a couple of point decoders from eBay advertised as 8216 but on the back it had the code 50/07 On the back which I understand someone has stated that these have been labeled wrongly and are in fact 8247,s the problem is I have tried to program them as per instructions with the leaflet that came with them and the elite manual that I have but they dont seem to work is there any way to test that the decoders are not at fault I have managed to gain access to these decoders ,can anybody tell me the default settings at present they are set at a pulse of 100 , when operating they seem to be a bit weak in power ,i dont really want to change the decoders as i am on a very tight budget and must percivere with the ones i have....thanks I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbo2 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Airband1 said: [reply]Airband1 said: I managed to obtain a couple of point decoders from eBay advertised as 8216 but on the back it had the code 50/07 On the back which I understand someone has stated that these have been labeled wrongly and are in fact 8247,s the problem is I have tried to program them as per instructions with the leaflet that came with them and the elite manual that I have but they dont seem to work is there any way to test that the decoders are not at fault I have managed to gain access to these decoders ,can anybody tell me the default settings at present they are set at a pulse of 100 , when operating they seem to be a bit weak in power ,i dont really want to change the decoders as i am on a very tight budget and must percivere with the ones i have....thanks I 100 is the default pulse duration so looking good from that perspective. Are the points actually switching or "trying" to!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband1 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 They sometimes switch but it seems to be a weak pulse ,I have a bus wire running round the layout and there are no locos on the track as yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airband1 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 when the motor is disconnected from the points it switches but when reconnected the points dont work,they are new points and are not tight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 If 8216s, you can't change from the default 100mSec pulse, but if really 8247s you can make the pulse longer to say 300mSec and see how they go. And despite your saying the points aren't sticky, make sure they are perfectly flat and the motor is aligned correctly. If using surface mount, don't screw them down tightly, leave a little play in the screws. Tell us how you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrains2 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Michael_A said: The Elite manual on the site is the latest version. (1.41) I would recommend the ESU SwitchPilot (Hornby seem happy to discuss this as has been mentioned in other Forums and accomodated for in RailMaster. It is a tricky beast to programme, but not impossible, so here is a summary of what will work (2 different methods) ESU SwitchPilot programming Method 1: Programming with RailMaster: 1. Connect track ‘A’ to red ‘PROGRAMME’ output of the Elite 2. Connect track ‘B’ to black ‘PROGRAMME’ output of the Elite 3. Connect power ‘A’ to red ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite 4. Connect power ‘B’ to black ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite It is important the polarity of the two sets of wires going to the ‘TRACK’ and ‘PROG’ outputs match or it will not work. Ignore any message to the contrary in RailMaster! Attach a point motor to port 1 of the SwitchPilot or it won't program. Place ESU switch in middle 'User' position Programme using RailMaster (select ESU SwitchPilot from the drop down menu) Method 2: ESU in ‘Learn’ mode: 1. Connect ‘power A’ and ‘track B’ together to the red ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite 2. Connect ‘power B’ and ‘track B’ together to the black ‘TRACK’ output of the Elite 3. Set the first point and number up in RailMaster (1,5,9 etc.) 4. Connect at least 1 point motor or load as described in the ESU instructions to point 1 connection on the ESU 5. Put the ESU switch in the middle 'User' position, (pulsed output) for the more normal solenoid operated point motors or ‘k84’ for motorised points, lights etc. (output always on) 6. Press the ESU ‘learn’ button until the LED only just starts to flash and then flashes slowly. (Note there are two flashing modes, slow flash which allows learn mode to work from the Elite as well as RailMaster, and quick flashing which then means the ESU can only be programmed via RailMaster). 7. Click on the RailMaster screen the point or light you want to change and that will set the corresponding point number on the ESU. So if you use point / port 1, the other point outputs will be 2, 3, 4, if you start at 5, they will be 6, 7, 8 and so on. To programme this way by the Elite itself, then the method is just the same, you simply operate point 1, 5, 9 etc. from the Elite as per the accessory operating instructions. Note the LED will stop flashing once the programming is accepted. Leave the ‘User’ switch in ‘User’ for solenoid points or ‘k84’ for motorised points or lights. Don't use ‘k83’ as the output pulse is too long and will eventually destroy solenoid point motors. Finally: Once programmed either: 1. Connect ‘track A’ and ‘power A’ together and ‘track B’ and ‘power B’ together then to the ‘TRACK’ outputs of the Elite or the track / DCC bus. Or: 2. Connect ‘power A’ and ‘power B’ to a suitable 4 amp power supply, and ‘track A’ and ‘track B’ to the ‘TRACK’ outputs of the Elite or the track itself / DCC bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrains2 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Having spent the last 3 nights trying to programme an ESU switch pilot to my E link I was delighted to read your very clear instruction on how to programme this unit. Following your instruction I was able to programme the unit in about 5 minutes. Thanks for taking the time for posting these instructions on the forum most helpfull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_A Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Glad to be of help. That's what these forums are all about, sharing ideas, issues and solutions. Which method did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrains2 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Michael_A said: Glad to be of help. That's what these forums are all about, sharing ideas, issues and solutions. Which method did you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaltrains2 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I used method 2, what threw me to start with was following the instructions on Railmaster, read your instructions and just clicked on the point icon on the layout plan and immediately programmed the decoder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 @Michael_A I am about to put your excellent instructions to the test (I will be using Method 2) but is there a small error on the first line of Method 2? Should 'track B' read 'track A'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousehole Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Post a new reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousehole Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 As reported in other posts, I have only just become operational with eLink and Railmaster and have started looking at point control. On my layout all my points are operated by Peco PL10W point motors on Peco points controlled with Peco point switches. All work well, even where two are operated simultaneously on crossovers and on Peco three-way points. I have a Hornby 8247 decoder that I have set up successfully on Railmaster and it will operate a point motor when stand-alone but when attached to a point there does not seem to be enough energy to throw it. I have set a pulse length of 600ms. Is there any reason for this failure? Are there any other accessory decoders that will be more successful by providing more power? I have seen several comments on the ADS-8, would these be a suitable alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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