Programming to Automate your layout

[RDS]

PJ_model_trains said:

... I prefer to record a program and edit it ...

I agree, that is usually my starting point.

I am interested to hear that you have not had any problems with the 'Chain' command. I certainly

have! Maybe I will try it out again.

[St1ngr4y]

I agree with RDS - record a program then edit it. I usually replace all of the Forward to [n] commands by accelerate and decelerate commands. Have you tried these yet, PJ?

Ray

[gilbo2]

St1ngr4y said:

I agree with RDS - record a program then edit it. I usually replace all of the Forward to [n] commands by accelerate and decelerate commands. Have you tried these yet, PJ?
Ray

I use the same method and then

"merge" each one together. Can create some really busy movements using this method and is amazing to watch. My record is 7 trains moving at once doing their own thing. The real power of dcc and HRM!

[PJ_model_trains]

RDS said:

I agree, that is usually my starting point.

I am interested to hear that you have not had any problems with the 'Chain' command. I certainly have! Maybe I will try it out again.

Hi RDS

As I said, I have

only just started to try programming. I left it because I thought people were having problems. I was busy building layout anyway and time just goes on.

I don't want to count my chickens yet, I have not run a full 4 stop sequence to the end after editing

out most of the the speed stages created by manually using speed throttle. I will come back with updates but also to read everyone's of view and experiences.

As they say, keep em coming.

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

I agree with RDS - record a program then edit it. I usually replace all of the Forward to [n] commands by accelerate and decelerate commands. Have you tried these yet, PJ?
Ray

Hi Ray

See my previous

message. I have not got to this just basic record and edit speed steps. Thanks for confirming your views and recommendation. I will give it a try.

Thanks again

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

dgilbert2 said:

I use the same method and then "merge" each one together. Can create some really busy movements using this method and is amazing to watch. My record is 7 trains moving at once doing their own thing. The real power of dcc and

HRM!

Brilliant dgilbert2

Thanks for commenting on what you do and how it works for you. 7 trains at once is good, it's excellent. I have only done 3 so far, not bad for my first day in programming ;-)

Real Power, it certainly

is, and when programs and loco detection come together there will be More Power, More Power, More Power as they say in the Virgin advert. (Not Virgin Rail advert)

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

PJ, if you are getting jumping and lurching under program control, you will be getting that under similar manual control too. Even though you can smooth it out by gradual throttle adjustment manually, this shouldn't happen

if your CVs are well set up. You should be able to go from stop to shunt to cruise smoothly, otherwise what is the point of defining these in the loco setup.

I would be looking at accel, decel, speed tables and back EMF for a start and assuming these

are supported in your decoders. Also, check the recent blue box decoder discussion on not running smoothly and manufacturer-defined CVs to adjust to fix this.

My comments were slightly exaggerated to make a point. The steam locos and my class

37's pick up and slow down really well. The class 47 and some of the others are not bad but all DMU's, sprinters do just that, they sprint. One would expect them to pick up and slow down much quicker but the Class 153, brand new, need looking at the speed

step, stop to shunt and shunt to cruise are rally noticeable surges not gradual pick up.

CV's 3,4 and 10 are as follows.

It is great to have them in Excel to view at any time. It will be easier when we can export them, I typed every code for

every loco.

Class 153 Sprinter DMU 3 Acceloration rate 005 99 20 3 5 113 NO
Class 153 Sprinter DMU 4 Deceleration rate 005 99 20 4 5 118 NO

Class 153 Sprinter DMU 10 EMF feedback cutout 128 99 20 10 128 253 NO

I have put it on my task

list of jobs to do. I am hoping new monitor comes today, new tower arrived yesterday, I think starting to set this up may take priority ;-)

I must have missed this, the recent blue box decoder discussion, I will search it and check later.

Many

thanks

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

I agree with RDS - record a program then edit it. I usually replace all of the Forward to [n] commands by accelerate and decelerate commands. Have you tried these yet, PJ?
Ray

Hi Ray

Do you replace

'ALL' Forward to [n] with Accelerate Foward [A] to

I have just tried

0.0 - F1 sound on
4.0 - F5 coal on
11.0 - F3 Coupler which is Hoot Hoot
20.0 - accelerator forward [a]to
59.8 - De-accelerate forward [a] to
72.5

- stop

Sound comes on, Hoot works loco stays put?

Do I have to add shunt or cruise first?

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, regarding your CV values, your values are weird and not the first time you have this format (previously in discussion on CV29). The value of the CV should just be a number in the range 0 to 255 and for CVs 3 and 4 typically in the range of 5-10. Not

 

sure on back EMF start value.

 

Also on your accelerate/decelerate commands, go back and look at RDS's post on page 1 for syntax.

[idlemarvel]

PJ_model_trains said:

Class 153 Sprinter DMU 3 Acceloration rate 005 99 20 3 5 113 NO

PJ, for future reference, no need to include all those numbers, just the first one (005 in the example above) is relevant.

[St1ngr4y]

PJ_model_trains said:

Hi Ray

Do you replace 'ALL' Forward to [n] with Accelerate Foward [A] to

I have just tried

0.0 - F1 sound on
4.0 - F5 coal on
11.0 - F3 Coupler which is Hoot Hoot
20.0 - accelerator

forward [a]to
59.8 - De-accelerate forward [a] to
72.5 - stop

Sound comes on, Hoot works loco stays put?

Do I have to add shunt or cruise first?

PJ

Hi PJ,
You have to replace the a and b by the start and

end speeds respectively e.g. accelerate forward [0] to [50] then decelerate forward [50] to [10]. It's these values which you need to experiment with to get the results you want. You will find the values are different for each loco. There is a third very useful

parameter which you can add to the end of each command. It defines the RATE at which the acceleration or deceleration occurs. The default value is 1.0 which means that the speed changes by about 1 mph (speed step) per second. If you put a value less than 1,

it means the speed changes more quickly, greater than 1 it changes more slowly. So for example, accelerate forward [0] to [50],2 means that the speed increases by 1 speed step every 2 seconds. You can also work out how long it will take to execute the whole

command. The last example would take about 100 seconds, whereas, for example, decelerate forward [40] to [10],0.5 should take around 15 seconds. It's the difference between the start / end values multiplied by the rate value.
Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

idlemarvel said:

PJ_model_trains said:

Class 153 Sprinter DMU 3 Acceloration rate 005 99 20 3 5 113 NO


PJ, for future reference, no need to include all those numbers, just the first one (005 in the example above) is relevant.

Thanks

for your help

They are therefore

CV's 3,4 and 10 are as follows.

It is great to have them in Excel to view at any time. It will be easier when we can export them, I typed every code for every loco.

Class 153 Sprinter DMU 3 Acceloration

rate 005
Class 153 Sprinter DMU 4 Deceleration rate 005

Class 153 Sprinter DMU 10 EMF feedback cutout 128

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

PJ, regarding your CV values, your values are weird and not the first time you have this format (previously in discussion on CV29). The value of the CV should just be a number in the range 0 to 255 and for CVs 3 and 4 typically

in the range of 5-10. Not sure on back EMF start value.

Also on your accelerate/decelerate commands, go back and look at RDS's post on page 1 for syntax.

Hi

See post above for revised data of CV's 3,4 and EMF

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

PJ_model_trains said:

Hi Ray

Do you replace 'ALL' Forward to [n] with Accelerate Foward [A] to

I have just tried

0.0 - F1 sound on
4.0 - F5 coal on
11.0 - F3 Coupler which is Hoot Hoot
20.0

- accelerator forward [a]to
59.8 - De-accelerate forward [a] to
72.5 - stop

Sound comes on, Hoot works loco stays put?

Do I have to add shunt or cruise first?

PJ

Hi PJ,
You have to replace the a and b by the start

and end speeds respectively e.g. accelerate forward [0] to [50] then decelerate forward [50] to [10]. It's these values which you need to experiment with to get the results you want. You will find the values are different for each loco. There is a third very

useful parameter which you can add to the end of each command. It defines the RATE at which the acceleration or deceleration occurs. The default value is 1.0 which means that the speed changes by about 1 mph (speed step) per second. If you put a value less

than 1, it means the speed changes more quickly, greater than 1 it changes more slowly. So for example, accelerate forward [0] to [50],2 means that the speed increases by 1 speed step every 2 seconds. You can also work out how long it will take to execute

the whole command. The last example would take about 100 seconds, whereas, for example, decelerate forward [40] to [10],0.5 should take around 15 seconds. It's the difference between the start / end values multiplied by the rate value.
Ray

Sometime

you just feel so silly. Of course I should have added the speed!!!

My tower came yesterday. my monitor should have come today. Courier said 24 hours but not on van? Had to go to my wife's parents again to see her dad we though he was dying. Not well

for a while now but doctor was there so that became urgent. Her mum and dad both have dementia its a nightmare. Came home and had to go to hospital, my problems from last year raise their head again. I saw doctor Monday have to have tests on Saturday they

wanted us to pick some things up from the hospital today!

I am trying to do to much but, am also trying to keep my mind occupied. We are being strong for each other as my wife is not well either. Very trying so thanks for your patience.

The good

news is the doctor has hopefully stabilised her dad (again) but, will be back out tomorrow.

Not as important but good news anyway, the monitor arrived at 6:30 tonight ;-)

Kind regards

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

PJ_model_trains said:

Hi Ray

Do you replace 'ALL' Forward to [n] with Accelerate Foward [A] to

I have just tried

0.0 - F1 sound on
4.0 - F5 coal on
11.0 - F3 Coupler which is Hoot Hoot
20.0

- accelerator forward [a]to
59.8 - De-accelerate forward [a] to
72.5 - stop

Sound comes on, Hoot works loco stays put?

Do I have to add shunt or cruise first?

PJ

Hi PJ,
You have to replace the a and b by the start

and end speeds respectively e.g. accelerate forward [0] to [50] then decelerate forward [50] to [10]. It's these values which you need to experiment with to get the results you want. You will find the values are different for each loco. There is a third very

useful parameter which you can add to the end of each command. It defines the RATE at which the acceleration or deceleration occurs. The default value is 1.0 which means that the speed changes by about 1 mph (speed step) per second. If you put a value less

than 1, it means the speed changes more quickly, greater than 1 it changes more slowly. So for example, accelerate forward [0] to [50],2 means that the speed increases by 1 speed step every 2 seconds. You can also work out how long it will take to execute

the whole command. The last example would take about 100 seconds, whereas, for example, decelerate forward [40] to [10],0.5 should take around 15 seconds. It's the difference between the start / end values multiplied by the rate value.
Ray

Many

thanks Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

St1ngr4y said:

Hi PJ,
You have to replace the a and b by the start and end speeds respectively e.g. accelerate forward [0] to [50] then decelerate forward [50] to [10]. It's these values which you need to experiment with to get the results

you want. You will find the values are different for each loco. There is a third very useful parameter which you can add to the end of each command. It defines the RATE at which the acceleration or deceleration occurs. The default value is 1.0 which means

that the speed changes by about 1 mph (speed step) per second. If you put a value less than 1, it means the speed changes more quickly, greater than 1 it changes more slowly. So for example, accelerate forward [0] to [50],2 means that the speed increases by

1 speed step every 2 seconds. You can also work out how long it will take to execute the whole command. The last example would take about 100 seconds, whereas, for example, decelerate forward [40] to [10],0.5 should take around 15 seconds. It's the difference

between the start / end values multiplied by the rate value.
Ray

Hi

Ray have you tried this with a steam loco with sound?

I have a basic program as stated previously.

I added the acceleration from 0 to 50 in steps 1.0

(I also tried 0.5 same result)

The program turned on, added coal, set off, gave a hoot and away it went. Brilliant I thought.

Then the sound stops and comes on again and off and on again. The sound I refer to here is steam train noise. So what

is happening with the acceleration command rather than the cruise command is... steam train makes the noise we expect when pulling a load and increasing speed, but when at 50 mph stops the shunting noise until the speed drops a few mph then comes on again

to shunt back up to 50mph.

Has any one tested the acceleration instead of cruise option mentioned above with a steam loco with sound? It looks good with no sound but we cannot see the slight slow down and increase to full speed but the loco with sound

can.

It also ignored the stop command, the program stopped and loco carried on at last speed which was 4mph.

Comments welcome

PJ

[St1ngr4y]

Hi PJ,

To answer the last one first - this can happen if the stop command is actioned while the deceleration command hasn't yet reached its end point. This is why you need to calculate how long the deceleration will take, and place the stop command

 

a few seconds beyond that point. I have two steam locos which operate brilliantly using the acceleration and deceleration commands. Can you list your program here from the accelerate command to the stop command (including the time of each command).

Ray

[St1ngr4y]

PJ,

I should have said I have two steam locos with sound, and four others without.

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

No experience in this myself PJ but you might try experimenting with back EMF to stop the speed variation.

 

And was the stop command lost after you'd chained programs together because losing the last command is the reported problem with this.

 

So

 

you can see what is happening, look at your log.txt file as it keeps a record of commands processed.

[St1ngr4y]

PJ,

Having thought about it a little more, is there any chance that the decelerate command is being actioned before the accelerate has reached its maximum? If so, you might have a few seconds where it is trying to slow down and speed up at the same

 

time, and could account for what you are seeing (and hearing).

Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

No experience in this myself PJ but you might try experimenting with back EMF to stop the speed variation.

And was the stop command lost after you'd chained programs together because losing the last command is the

reported problem with this.

So you can see what is happening, look at your log.txt file as it keeps a record of commands processed.

[PJ_model_trains]

Fishmanoz said:

No experience in this myself PJ but you might try experimenting with back EMF to stop the speed variation.

And was the stop command lost after you'd chained programs together because losing the last command is the

reported problem with this.

So you can see what is happening, look at your log.txt file as it keeps a record of commands processed.

Hi Fishy

Ray gave me a new procedure which I am trying, so I don't try Chain command until I know

two programs are ready to chain, in this case thet are not, I am tinkering shall I say with one basic program.

The only programs I Chained were two recorded ones.

I will look at the timings Ray mentioned, then the log file you mentioned.

Thanks

PJ

[idlemarvel]

Hi PJ,

I don't know the exact details behind this, but with sound chips sometimes the movement of a loco is delayed by the sound, especially when starting up from stationary. I only have diesel locos but the idea is the sound decoder is trying to emulate

 

the real thing by "revving the engine before engaging clutch", as it were. So if you have a program saying start and then 10 seconds later stop, if you have sound off it will obey immediately, if you have sound on there will be a delay before starting.

[PJ_model_trains]

idlemarvel said:

Hi PJ,
I don't know the exact details behind this, but with sound chips sometimes the movement of a loco is delayed by the sound, especially when starting up from stationary. I only have diesel locos but the idea is the

sound decoder is trying to emulate the real thing by "revving the engine before engaging clutch", as it were. So if you have a program saying start and then 10 seconds later stop, if you have sound off it will obey immediately, if you have sound on there will

be a delay before starting.

Hi idlemarvel

I have a Class 37 with sound but, have not tried it with the acceleration command. It starts up, goes through all the start up and build up procedure then sets off and sound raises with speed

etc. Having said that the Steam loco does sound on, shunt and cruise under normal running and recorded also with no problems.

The only problems with sounds are when using acceleration command instead of shunt and cruise or throttle.

Thanks for

your comments.

I will look at the basic test code I put in to test the acceleration command and let Ray have a look as he kindly asked for.

Thanks again

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

idlemarvel said:

Hi PJ,
I don't know the exact details behind this, but with sound chips sometimes the movement of a loco is delayed by the sound, especially when starting up from stationary. I only have diesel locos but the idea is the

sound decoder is trying to emulate the real thing by "revving the engine before engaging clutch", as it were. So if you have a program saying start and then 10 seconds later stop, if you have sound off it will obey immediately, if you have sound on there will

be a delay before starting.

Hi idlemarvel

I have a Class 37 with sound but, have not tried it with the acceleration command. It starts up, goes through all the start up and build up procedure then sets off and sound raises with speed

etc. Having said that the Steam loco does sound on, shunt and cruise under normal running and recorded also with no problems.

The only problems with sounds are when using acceleration command instead of shunt and cruise or throttle.

Thanks for

your comments.

I will look at the basic test code I put in to test the acceleration command and let Ray have a look as he kindly asked for.

Thanks again

PJ