joeavfc Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 My Railroad Tornado persistently derails on one of my corners and I have no idea why. The wheels seem to bump up however there is nothing on the track or on the inside of the rails. I am new to the modelling world and would appreciate some help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It could be the curve is too tight. Do you know what radius the curves are, 1st, 2cnd, 3rd or 4th. Have a look at the number underneath the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 walkingthedog said: It could be the curve is too tight. Do you know what radius the curves are, 1st, 2cnd, 3rd or 4th. Have a look at the number underneath the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 joeavfc said: walkingthedog said: It could be the curve is too tight. Do you know what radius the curves are, 1st, 2cnd, 3rd or 4th. Have a look at the number underneath the track. it only happens on the one corner and its a 2nd or 3rd radius, my flying scotsman doesnt do it, only tornado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Which wheels lift off, front bogie or main drive wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 The front 4, so the front bogie I guess, the ones at the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 It could be that the distance between the backs of the wheels is to much or to too little. It should be about 14.5mm. Try and measure the distance, if incorrect the wheels can be moved on the axles by twisting them. Is the bogie fouling anything when it turns, maybe the cylinder or front steps if they are fitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Compare them to Flying Scotsman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 Will do, it doesnt seem stable on this one corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Is the track flat, are you sure the sections on that curve are properly connected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 I run it in the opposite direction and its fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hi, I had a similar problem with a Hornby A4 - from the main range rather than Railroad, but the chassis design of all the LNER Pacifics is pretty much the same. I spent weeks relaying track (a real pain because it was permanently ballasted), but no improvement. None of my other Hornby Pacifics (including Flying Scotsman, Tornado, and another A4) had any problem, before or after this. I then compared them all and noticed that the problem loco was derailing because of the front bogie. It is attached to the chassis by a bolt that passes through a slot in a T shaped bracket that is screwed to the chassis. With the offending loco the bracket was screwed on to the chassis very tightly (allowing no vertical or sideways movement, but with the other locos it was looser, presumably allowing the bogie to move up/down, sideways and pivot a bit more easily. Loosening the screw slightly so that the bogie was a bit more floppy solved the problem for me. Have a go - it only needs to be loosened to give a bit of movement. Hopefully this may solve your problem. However, I know from the experiences of a few others on this forum that I'm not the only one to have had problems. And if anyone tells you "Derailments only ever happen because the track isn't laid properly" take it with a pinch of salt - just as often the loco is at fault. joeavfc said: I run it in the opposite direction and its fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I agree it is usually a loco problem. Good point about a tight bogie. As it seems OK in one direction it would appear it is sticking more one way than the other. Always worth checking the track before taking a hammer to the loco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 The Doc said: Hi, I had a similar problem with a Hornby A4 - from the main range rather than Railroad, but the chassis design of all the LNER Pacifics is pretty much the same. I spent weeks relaying track (a real pain because it was permanently ballasted), but no improvement. None of my other Hornby Pacifics (including Flying Scotsman, Tornado, and another A4) had any problem, before or after this. I then compared them all and noticed that the problem loco was derailing because of the front bogie. It is attached to the chassis by a bolt that passes through a slot in a T shaped bracket that is screwed to the chassis. With the offending loco the bracket was screwed on to the chassis very tightly (allowing no vertical or sideways movement, but with the other locos it was looser, presumably allowing the bogie to move up/down, sideways and pivot a bit more easily. Loosening the screw slightly so that the bogie was a bit more floppy solved the problem for me. Have a go - it only needs to be loosened to give a bit of movement. Hopefully this may solve your problem. However, I know from the experiences of a few others on this forum that I'm not the only one to have had problems. And if anyone tells you "Derailments only ever happen because the track isn't laid properly" take it with a pinch of salt - just as often the loco is at fault. seems that one of the main driving wheels bumps up, and only that one? joeavfc said: I run it in the opposite direction and its fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 A driving wheel jumping up is normally due to the curve being too tight or the join between to sections of track not being straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 walkingthedog said: A driving wheel jumping up is normally due to the curve being too tight or the join between to sections of track not being straight. ive sorted it for the time being, removed some ballast frommunder the track and it semsnto habe solved my problem for now, thanks anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Uneven track causes all sorts of problems whether taken with a pinch of salt or a dash of pepper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeavfc Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Ive got a feeling it may have been uneven track, not sure why, the torndao would go round 20 times without coming off them suddenly derail on the same corner again... strange any tips or recommendations? Im new to this, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It's not unusual for a train to run round for 30 minutes and then a wagon will suddenly fall over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Nowadays I find that, if I run around for less than 30 minutes, I fall over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Postman Prat Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Is that because people keep tripping you up??? WTD tried that at Didcot but failed !! Graskie said: Nowadays I find that, if I run around for less than 30 minutes, I fall over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 A straight edge (Steel ruler at least 300mm long, but preferably longer) and a spirit level are useful tools when laying track. Also the Mark 1 eyeball. Most derailment issues can be traced to track defects. One fault that can sometimes be overlooked is 'twist' where one rail changes height in respect to the other. A few hints based on real practice. Both rails should be level and parallel in both vertical and horizontal directions except on curves where the outer rail may be slightly higher than the inner one (super-elevation). When entering a curve the outer rail should increase in height gradually as the train enters the curve and should never exceed 2mm above the inner one, and usually much less. Also when entering or leaving a gradient both rails should rise or fall at the same rate. Set track that is bent or damaged should be replaced, and flexible track should be curved smoothly with no kinks or 'dog-legs'. At joints between lengths between flexible track extra care must be taken to ensure that the transition between one length and the next is smooth and supported by sleepers as close to the rail joiners as practicable. A frequent problem with modern stock is the incorrect set up of wheel sets, and if they are too wide or too narrow they do not negotiate points correctly. A back to back gauge is a useful tool (Markits sell them, others are available). Wheels are usually press fit on axles and can be adjusted but be careful that they are not twisted or over adjusted. The wheel is usually mounted using a plastic or fibre insulator. The driving wheels of steam locomotives should not be tackled unless you are a very experience modeller. The quartering of the wheel must not be interfered with or the loco will not run properly. Wheels involved in accidents can also become out of adjustment, a dropped model may look OK but it is wise to check the wheels before using it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graskie Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Some great advice there, LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_wilding Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Recently bought the tornado and i am having the same problem as joeavfc,everything else flies found fine,but not tornado,no matter how slow i run the loco it jumps up and derails,running the other way it is fine,just spent hours in the garage trying to figure it out,very frustrating,loco still in one piece.............god knows why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 WTD put -It's not unusual for a train to run round for 30 minutes and then a wagon will suddenly fall over. - - Usually after you have been practising for that 'this is my railway' video and got everything working perfectly - then you point a camera at it!! Crunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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