railmaster.ini file

[Cowplain]

I am trying to set up a turntable (Peco kit using the Locomotech motor) and have looked closely at the Raimaster V1.56 Pro documentation and, for the first time since I have been using Raimaster (which I must say I am very impressed with generally) I am needing to conduct some surgery on the railmaster.ini file, following the instructions on Page 92 of the pdf file. However, when I attempt to make changes to the file the system will not allow me to save the file. I am obviously running Raimaster in administrator mode and my I also have full administration rights within Windows 8.1, but I am receiveing reports that I do not have the "authority" to make such changes.

I believe that there is a very straightforward answer to this issue, but I seem to be unable to work around the issue.

Any prompts or guidance would be most welcome.

[Fishmanoz]

Copy the file to anywhere else outside the RM folder. You will then be able to change it and then copy it back. You should also keep a copy of the original by a different name like railmaster.old in case you mess it up. 

[Cowplain]

May thanks for that. It seems to be too simple to be logical! I will try it as soon as I can.

[St1ngr4y]

Hi Fishy,

Is this a Windows 8 thing? I've never had such a problem using Windows 7.

Probably another reason for incorporating all of the .ini file items into the System set up window in RM itself!

Ray

[RDS]

I have never had a problem with 7 either.

[Fishmanoz]

Don't think its an 8 thing. More to do with write rights in the folder. Have you 2 turned off UAC by any chance?

[westernwill]

I also have the same problem under 8,1. I am signed on as Administrator.

[Fishmanoz]

To be more specific:

Open file in Notepad. Then use File Save As to save it somewhere else. Now use Windows Explorer to rename the one in the RM folder as railmaster.old, or any other name you like.

Do your edits in Notepad and save. Now use Save As to put it back into the RM folder. 

It has nothing to do with whether your are Adminstrator or not.  

[St1ngr4y]

But if it is write rights in the folder, how come it allows Railmaster itself to, for example, create/amend a .prg file, create/amend a .pln file etc etc. How are the rights different for these files which reside in the same folder as the .ini file?

Ray

[Augustus Caesar]

Step 1. In either Windows or Windows 8/8.1 simply right click the .ini file and click Copy from the menu that pops up. Then move your cursor to an empty space in the SAME directory as the original file and again right click. From the menu click Paste. You will be be given a message about rights to save in that folder - just click to continue. The file is then saved to the same directory with the filename 'RailMaster - Copy'.

Step 2. Right click the ORIGINAL .ini file and from the menu choose Open or Edit. The file will automatically open in Notepad. Carry out any changes you need. Then click File and then Save As. This is important... do NOT click Save.

Step 3. Choose a different directory to save your new file in away from the original one (Documents, for example, as read and write permissions are set up for you to use this whenever you want with no restrictions). Do NOT save just yet.

Step 4. At the foot of the 'Save As' window change the Save as Type from a txt file to All Files. Change nothing else. Now click Save at the foot of the window.

Step 5. Go to the directory you saved the file to and right click on the file. Choose Copy. Now go to the RailMaster directory and within it where the original file sits just right click in a blank area and choose Paste. From the popup just click Copy and Replace. A Destination Folder Access Denied message pops up so just click Continue. This bypasses any rights issues and you no longer need worry about them.

Open the file as before to view your changes. You will remember that the original file sits in that folder still with the - Copy extension to the filename.

Fishy's way is still valid but this is just another alternative and works in BOTH Win 8 versions and Win 7 no matter whether 32 or 64 bit. As stated you do not need to worry about permissions.

You can use this method of rewriting almost any file where permissions are denied but of course the file has to be a rewritable file in the first place!

Hope this helps....

[St1ngr4y]

So are you saying that it is the permissions/rights on the .ini file itself, rather than the whole folder?

Ray

[Augustus Caesar]

The files within the folder are covered with read only permissions and even if you attempt to remove them (which it says is done successfully when you try it) and then attempt to change the file in any way you will discover that the permissions weren't actually changed. The files themselves are not read only when you check them but their permissions are inherited from their parent folder.

The .ini file itself has only read and read & execute permissions for Users. Full rights are given to system administrators.

The thing to look for here is not specifically whether or not the file has permissions or the folder the file sits in but all of their parent directories too. The program is installed by default to Program Files (x86) directory and then the RailMaster directory. The program, when installed to the RM directory, can automatically obtain permissions from the parent directory of PF(x86) (abbreviated for convenience) and this is called permission inheritance simply because they are inherited from its parent folder.

If a program is installed to any Windows folder that is protected with permissions as default and these cannot normally be changed then the chances of you doing it yourself are not high and probably not worth it. They are protected from being written to for reasons of security and the possibility of being changed or deleted by viruses etc.

The ways around this are to do what both myself and Fishy have outlined above which means changing the file OUTSIDE of the secure directory and then pasting it back afterward.

Check the .ini file if you wish to see what permissions it gives you... right click on it and then click Properties. Under the General tab you will see no read only attributes are given but they are inherited from the folder the file sits in so it can be a little misleading if you don't understand inheritance. 

Also, from there, click the Security tab and click each group or user name to see the difference between user permissions and those for Admins or system users. Under NO account should you attempt to alter ANY of these unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing. To be honest they would change little as you would need to add your own profile here to begin to see any changes you make but, again, do not attempt it!

[idlemarvel]

Because you have given the railmaster program admin rights, when you installed it and when you run it, and it is railmaster that is writing .prg files and .pln files.  You will find it is the same if you were ever foolish enough to try editing those files manually outside of railmaster (don't!).  It still prompts you as a user if you want to change protected files.  With windows 7 and 8 you can turn this off in control panel, user access control and set it to lowest setting but it is not generally recommended as you have then given carte blanche to anything to change any file on your system without telling you.  So you put up with the minor inconvenience of having to copy a file to e.g. my documents first before wrting it back, with warnings.

[Augustus Caesar]

Yes you are still prompted but the fact remains that you are denied writing the file back directly in the original folder. You are right when you say it is UAC (User Access Controls) that protect the system from accidently overwriting files or otherwise and the settings for these should NOT be changed.

You do not have to copy the file to another folder first in order to edit it per say which is what you are saying, Idlemarvel as well as Fishy, as I have shown in the steps I offer above. There are a few different ways to achieve the same goal both in Win7 or 8 but these ones we qualify here are the most common.

We don't give rights to RM when installing except to allow the system to accept the installer as a legitimate program to run. It is the same when running the program, those rights are given for that and that only. The parent directory gives the permissions for read, write and execute in this case.

Permissions and inherited permissions can be one of the most frustrating parts of any OS but, once understood fully, can be very helpful to the user but to those who are on the other side of the spectrum and don't understand it fully then it can be incredibly difficult to use.

Changing the .ini file will only pass parameters to the program database upon startup of the program and these can be changed. It is advisable you know what you are changing and why before doing this as these can be set defaults for a purpose that would not normally require any user intervention. Any .ini file for any program simply passes data to an internal database or variables that are set by default from these parameters and can be altered... but you must know what they are doing before you change them. If you were not allowed to change them there would be little point in an ini file in the first place and the figures detailed within it would therefore be placed in an inaccessible file.

[RDS]

Maybe I was lucky but I just loaded the .ini file into Notepad, amended it and resaved it into the original folder, without any problems.  This was on Windoze 7.

[St1ngr4y]

Exactly - I've always done that without a problem.

As I've said before, though, why is there a need for a .ini file. Why can't all of the items contained therein be amendable by extra tabs in the system details window within RM itself? Same with command line parameters - why can't they be in there as well?

Ray

[RDS]

I must admit Ray, I like the .ini file method as it is easy to modify (for some of us anyway!) and back-up.  

I can imagine from a programing point of view, that it is easier to add a new parameter to the list in the .ini file rather than add Tabs in the main program.

[Fishmanoz]

Again I'd ask if you 2 have turned off UAC?  Easy to tell - when you run RM from the desktop shortcut, does it ask you to confirm you really want to?  If not, UAC isn't on. 

[St1ngr4y]

It depends on what programming language they are using. If it is something like Visual C++, J++ or Visual Basic, I reckon a few hours effort would be needed to create a new tab for the System Settings window, which could be used to contain all of the .ini file items.

Fishy, I have RM pinned to my taskbar at the bottom of the screen - is this too a shortcut?

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

Yes it is a shortcut. 

[RDS]

I would get very frustrated if the computer asked me if I really wanted to run something I had just double clicked!

No it doesn't.

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

The RailMaster.ini file is deliberately kept separate from the normal RailMaster settings (as a file) because the majority of users should not need to change the settings.  These are also settings that, if played around with, can have detrimental effects on the operation of RailMaster.  It will be kept this way for the time-being, however we are looking at ways of making it easier to edit the contents of the file as the stumbling block for a few users is opening Notepad with admin rights on some versions of Windows.

[St1ngr4y]

So you are saying that it might have "detrimental effects" to adjust the speed of your turntable in the .ini file, but it's safe to allow access to things such as controller baud rate through the System settings window?  :-)

Ray

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

Your comment may be tongue-in-cheek Ray however some new users may take what you say as fact.  Changing the BAUD rate is not dangerous as the DCC controller will adjust to any BAUD rate selected.

As for the changing of the turntable parameters, the default settings for turntable speed and inter-road duration in RailMaster were arrived at after much research and should work for anybody with a 'clean' turntable and standard R8249 loco decoder so there should be no reason to change this in the majority of cases.

[Fishmanoz]

Then UAC is off and I think that is why you have no problem accessing and writing an amended ini file.