Adjusting speed - Royal Signals 4-6-2 - with Sound

[PJ_model_trains]

I am looking at stopping distances for all trains, important for when we have, or I have, Loco Detection.

 

I was looking forward to receiving DoG & CoN, TTS sound trains to see how they responde, I have to say very well.

 

This brings me back to my 4-6-2 Royal Signals B*mann train with Loksound, my first sound train purchsed tvelve months ago.

 

The sound on this train, I have to say is better than TTS, but it cost a lot more so I understand that. Sound itself is not the issue I am raising here it is stopping distance. This train unlike any other I have, sound or not, has a very long stopping distance, if fact it seems to free wheel to an eventual stop. The stopping distance for this train is excessive compared to all my other trains.

 

My question therefore, having no knowledge in this matter is, how do I alter the deacceleration and how do I maintain the correct sound?

 

PJ

[poliss]

Have you read the manual?

[PJ_model_trains]

Have you read the manual?

 

Not yet Poliss, I am being cautious after an issue with a Dapod track cleaning wagon.

I am asking before causing a problem, firstly looking at controlling CV's and also considering sound that reflects the changes to slow the train down.

Learning what to consider and then what to do. I always say, if you don't know ask. See below  ;o)

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

 first off cv 4 controls deceleration ,reading value cv 4 and then lowering should set your braking distance , as you probably know this variable depending on your speed at shut off,shall we take it from there to start,

 

Thank you magfan

 

I am happy with what you say so far, I am not at my layout control at present but will be later and will read the CV's.

 

Ready when you are 

 

Thank you

 

PJ

[poliss]

Different sound decodershave slightly different ways to control things. Without knowing which decoder it is, it's hard to give correct advice.

[PJ_model_trains]

Hi Poliss

As stated above, I will be reading CV's later, not in engine shed at present and will be having my tea soon (UK)  ;-)

PJ

[poliss]

I never mentioned reading the CVs. I asked of you had read the manual.

[Graskie]

Looks like CV4, PJ. Worth having a look at:

 

http://www.dccwiki.com/CV

 

and

 

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/51980_734xx_LokSound_Select

_ESULLC_EN_UsersManual_Edition-3_May-2012_eBook_01(2).pdf

 

 

 

[96RAF]

I don't know about Bacchus sound but TTS decoders need a value of 15 minimum for accel & decell CVs for the sound transitions to work properly.

[PJ_model_trains]

I never mentioned reading the CVs. I asked of you had read the manual.

 

Hi poliss

I know you didn't mention reading the CV's, I said, I will be reading the CV,s later?

I also replied regarding reading the manual at 17:05:50 Mon, 15 Dec 2014

No problem, I will be reading the CV's later, and will confirm the chip details.

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Ok guys

You've moved on whilst I had some tea  :o)

We know it is Loksound and you have the details Graskie.

First settings

acceleration 179

deacceleration  107

I currently have read cv running for all 25

Thanks

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

I don't know about Bacchus sound but TTS decoders need a value of 15 minimum for accel & decell CVs for the sound transitions to work properly.

Thank you

[PJ_model_trains]

Different sound decodershave slightly different ways to control things. Without knowing which decoder it is, it's hard to give correct advice.

Cheers

[PJ_model_trains]

 we can adjust sound synchro of the sounds after we have deceleration under control , the loksound has more to offer than tts and is not affected by any minimum settings

 

Hi

CV's 3& 4 are...

acceleration 179

deacceleration  107

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

 we can adjust sound synchro of the sounds after we have deceleration under control , the loksound has more to offer than tts and is not affected by any minimum settings

 

Hi

CV's 3& 4 are...

acceleration 179

deacceleration  107

PJ

drop them down pj

cv 3 is 44 seconds to set speed

cv 4 is 26 seconds to full stop

try cv 3 to 70

cv 4  to 30

default is

cv 3   32

cv 4   24

 

I am just reading the last 15 CV's then will write new values for 3 & 4

I do hope HRMS add the facility to save as csv files

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

 we can adjust sound synchro of the sounds after we have deceleration under control , the loksound has more to offer than tts and is not affected by any minimum settings

 

Hi

CV's 3& 4 are...

acceleration 179

deacceleration  107

PJ

drop them down pj

cv 3 is 44 seconds to set speed

cv 4 is 26 seconds to full stop

try cv 3 to 70

cv 4  to 30

default is

cv 3   32

cv 4   24

 

I am just reading the last 15 CV's then will write new values for 3 & 4

I do hope HRMS add the facility to save as csv files

PJ

Hi

Doyou want to explain how you worked these out.

Help me and hopefully others who may not know, as I mentioned at the start, new area for me  ;o)

Thank you

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

The stopping distance is much better  ;o)

If I run CoN at 50mph it takes just over a train and tender length to stop.

When I run Royal Signals at 50mph it is faster than the CoN so I run at 40mph to be similar speed

Stopping distance for Royal Signals at comparable speed was about 1 and 2/3 train and tender length.

Approximately half a train and tender length further than the CoN

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

This is testing running to Stop not deacceleeration to stop.

PJ

[Fishmanoz]

PJ, CVs 3 and 4 are two of the most basic CVs to use to affect how your locos respond to the throttle. You can adjust them to your heart's content without having another Dapol moment. All they do is set how long the loco takes to respond to the throttle, both up with 3 and down with 4. And as magfan says, it takes as many seconds to respond as the value divided by 4. 

 

You can take the magfan approach and reduce them to default or so and see what you think. Or you could reduce them to zero and see what you get, then increase to around default in one or more steps and see what seems realistic to you. I wouldn't spend a lot of time recording values and adjusting if I were you, just dive in and see how you go. If you get in a muddle, which is unlikely, the old CV8 trick will get you out again. 

 

Having got those sorted, there's no choice but to spend some time with the voluminous Loksound manual to understand sound and make it match the movement. I'm sure Graskie and magfan will have some shortcut hints from their experience.  Worth doing as 99% of the sound you come across is either Loksound v3, Loksound v4 or TTS.  Unless you go fitting other brands yourself. 

[PJ_model_trains]

  the values of cv 3 and 4 are multiplied by 0.25 i am quoting the locksound manual.

i cannot help with railmaster , dont own it ,

does your loco sound ok the patriot is a 3 cylinder loco so i think it should chuff 3 or 6 times per revolution of the driving wheels,

 

Hi magfan

 

I have just got it down to 4mph and checked it is 6 chuffs per revolution.

Actually 7 chuffs now because I am well chuffed  ;o}

 

It is a really nice train.

 

I am happier with the stopping distance and chuff rate. I may adjust again later based on the calculation you have stated. It is only slightly different but, to minimise problems with loco detection and stopping distances I am comparing all trains now. They don't all have to stop in the same distance, and some trains are longer than others so distance will be calculated accordingly. I will work all this out one by one, but this ground work will save a lot of time later. I think  ;o)

Brilliant, I have more control over this train now, something I found so hard previously especially when stopping by deacceleration.  Those will be my tests for tomorrow.

Thanks again for your help

Thanks everyone, I have said it many times, there are a good set of guys on here.

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

PJ, CVs 3 and 4 are two of the most basic CVs to use to affect how your locos respond to the throttle. You can adjust them to your heart's content without having another Dapol moment. All they do is set how long the loco takes to respond to the throttle, both up with 3 and down with 4. And as magfan says, it takes as many seconds to respond as the value divided by 4. 

 

You can take the magfan approach and reduce them to default or so and see what you think. Or you could reduce them to zero and see what you get, then increase to around default in one or more steps and see what seems realistic to you. I wouldn't spend a lot of time recording values and adjusting if I were you, just dive in and see how you go. If you get in a muddle, which is unlikely, the old CV8 trick will get you out again. 

 

Having got those sorted, there's no choice but to spend some time with the voluminous Loksound manual to understand sound and make it match the movement. I'm sure Graskie and magfan will have some shortcut hints from their experience.  Worth doing as 99% of the sound you come across is either Loksound v3, Loksound v4 or TTS.  Unless you go fitting other brands yourself. 

 

Hi Fishy

 

I know we should read the manual and poliss was gettig a bit uppaty at the start have you read the manual. Rightfully so but, my wife and myself have hospital and doctors appointments coming out or our ears at present and we will be 300 mile away next week so time wasn't on my side.

 

I did get brassed off with the Dapol wagon, more on that in the other thread tomorrow!!! 

 

Sometimes you just have to get and and do something, ignore peoples little rants if you now what I mean and find an answer, time is tight and health pressures sometimes make you want to scream. That's life I am afraid, you don't choose the cards of life, you may not help things at times but, some hands are worse than others.

 

Anyway, I can't remember what problem I had with my little Patriot, 6 months or more ago, but at last I have stopping distance under control and can run it and see if the old problem is still there.  Stopping distance and speed contorl will be so important with Loco Detection. Those words again  ;o)

 

Thanks again everyone for your help.

 

Every day is a school day... there is always something for us all to learn!

 

PJ 

[PJ_model_trains]

  the values of cv 3 and 4 are multiplied by 0.25 i am quoting the locksound manual.

i cannot help with railmaster , dont own it ,

does your loco sound ok the patriot is a 3 cylinder loco so i think it should chuff 3 or 6 times per revolution of the driving wheels,

 

Hi magfan

 

I have just got it down to 4mph and checked it is 6 chuffs per revolution.

Actually 7 chuffs now because I am well chuffed  ;o}

 

It is a really nice train.

 

I am happier with the stopping distance and chuff rate. I may adjust again later based on the calculation you have stated. It is only slightly different but, to minimise problems with loco detection and stopping distances I am comparing all trains now. They don't all have to stop in the same distance, and some trains are longer than others so distance will be calculated accordingly. I will work all this out one by one, but this ground work will save a lot of time later. I think  ;o)

Brilliant, I have more control over this train now, something I found so hard previously especially when stopping by deacceleration.  Those will be my tests for tomorrow.

Thanks again for your help

Thanks everyone, I have said it many times, there are a good set of guys on here.

PJ

good i am really pleased it works i did not fancy having to start altering cv's 67 to 94

 

I am well chuffed my friend, wll chuffed  ;-)

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate it.

Happy Christmas

PJ

[PJ_model_trains]

Ok guys

You've moved on whilst I had some tea  :o)

We know it is Loksound and you have the details Graskie.

First settings

acceleration 179

deacceleration  107

I currently have read cv running for all 25

Thanks

PJ

 

Should have read for all 255 but, I reckon you all guessed that

 

Thanks for your help

 

PJ