R8247 Accessory Decoder setup

[rogerkjohnson]

I tried to setup a new R8247 decoder using Railmaster, but rather than reading the decoder settings first I just entered the new address values and wrote them to the decoder. It appears that this somehow has made the decoder inoperable! (Major fault in railmaster that it allows you to do this!)

Does anyone know how to reset the decoder to factory defaults so that I can try to rescue the decoder? I have tried to reset it using a Select Controller but to no avail!

 

[Chrissaf]

Write decimal value 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder.

Some people have reported that a brand new R8247 straight out of the box, should first be connected to the main track for a minute or two to charge up internal components before attempting to program them on the programming track. It has been reported that without this initial charging process, programming issues can arise. Whether this is true or not is not worth debating, but it is worth trying. I programmed my own this way and had no problems at all.

.

Please report back for the benefit of other's if this helps resolve your problem.

[Howbi]

I tried to setup a new R8247 decoder using Railmaster, but rather than reading the decoder settings first I just entered the new address values and wrote them to the decoder. It appears that this somehow has made the decoder inoperable! (Major fault in railmaster that it allows you to do this!)

Does anyone know how to reset the decoder to factory defaults so that I can try to rescue the decoder? I have tried to reset it using a Select Controller but to no avail!

 

You can't reset the decoder using the Select, you have to use the Elite controller apparently.

[Yelrow]

chrissaf,i am afraid you cant do that sort of thing, with a Slect. Elink, or elite only, can read / change decoder values.Rogerk,, i dont think any blame lies with RailMaster, unfortunately, on this forum, written in many posters blood, is read the insrtuction manuel first.  Not that thats a lot of help did not help me either. If all else fails, return it to hornby, who will sort it, Has your local model shop, a way of reading cvs, it does not have to be a hornby ststem, or have you a mate, who has. Whereabouts are you in uk. john

[St1ngr4y]

I tried to setup a new R8247 decoder using Railmaster, but rather than reading the decoder settings first I just entered the new address values and wrote them to the decoder. It appears that this somehow has made the decoder inoperable! (Major fault in railmaster that it allows you to do this!)

Does anyone know how to reset the decoder to factory defaults so that I can try to rescue the decoder? I have tried to reset it using a Select Controller but to no avail!

 

Hi Roger,

What were the address values you put in?

Ray

[Chrissaf]

chrissaf,i am afraid you cant do that sort of thing, with a Slect. Elink, or elite only, can read / change decoder values.Rogerk,, i dont think any blame lies with RailMaster, unfortunately, on this forum, written in many posters blood, is read the insrtuction manuel first.  Not that thats a lot of help did not help me either. If all else fails, return it to hornby, who will sort it, Has your local model shop, a way of reading cvs, it does not have to be a hornby ststem, or have you a mate, who has. Whereabouts are you in uk. john

 

John (and Howbiman), I agree regarding Select. But if you read Roger's post carefully he says in the very first line "I tried to setup a new R8247 decoder using Railmaster". Roger wouldn't have RailMaster if he didn't also have either an e-link or or Elite controller to connect it to, as RM as we all know doesn't work with Select. I read Roger's last sentence that mentioned Select as being he tried using his original Select to do a reset, thinking that he had a problem with RM. I'm assuming here that Roger has upgraded his original Select to RM with elink / Elite as a later addition.

[Yelrow]

Chrissaf, your right,  perhaps we should have told him to adjust cv,reset  using railmaster. If he has elink, or elite, why would he use the select. Unless of course, he has a faulty, RM. Reading instructions of both, would have ruled out one, and sorted the other . Still, no doubt he will come back, and clear it up. Hope his functions are updated. john

[Chrissaf]

perhaps we should have told him to adjust cv,reset  using railmaster.

 

John, I thought that was I had done with the write decimal 8 to CV8 comment. Just on an aside John, did you get the fixed 1.61 installed in the end. I remember you posted that you had some difficulties with a corrupted file !!

[Yelrow]

Chissaf, it was what you had done, if an experienced poster had read it, but perhaps not for a first time guy. I remembered, when i bought RM, the first cv comments, from RAF, and Fishy, left me bewildered. They had to go into a lot more depth before i understood, still do. On your second point, thank you, yes i am back up to speed, but will NEVER again, take the lead in a new download. The stress and worry, coupled with inability to stop locos screeching, did nothing for my wifes view of this expensive new fangled system, and  she will take some convincing, should i decide to increase my sound fleet, of 4. john

[Ajay1]

Firstly, thanks to everyone who have contributed much information for me in the various topic threads I have posted here on the forum to date in my quest to build my model railway. Much appreciated.  Now back to the topic in hand.

I am am about to install three R2847 point & accessory decoders which in turn will look after the twelve points I have on my layout  together with the R8243 surface mounted point motors .   Now I have looked elsewhere on the internet as to how to go about wiring these together,and then in turn to the Elite Controller for its power. I have found a number of ways, being   A ) Running a separate bus wire for the accessories and connecting the decoder to that, and  B)  Connecting the decoder to the existing bus wires that the tracks are using.    Which would be the best option ?   I only have a small 8 x 4 layout.  

Also with regard to powering the Accessory decoders, the Elite Manual mentions something about any extra power that is drawn to run other devices so to speak, limits the amount of Locos  that you can run., and pehaps use a separate power source.  I thought I could use my Select Controller for this then?

  Your advise again would be mot helpful. Thanks.

Antony

[Chrissaf]

Antony,

I run six sound locos plus three R8247s operating 17 solenoid points on a 8ft x 6ft layout with RM / Elite on a single DCC BUS without issue. The R8247 draws approximately 14mA when idle with a surge (a couple of seconds) current when firing a point of about 150mA. The R8247 contains an integral CDU that stores & provides the pulse of high current to fire the solenoid. In English, what this all means is that the R8247 power requirement from your Elite 4 amp power supply is minimal to operate your points.

.

My second point is that you have stated you are using RM / Elite. If you use your spare Select to operate the points on a separate DCC BUS, then you will lose the ability to control your points by pointing and clicking your RM screen as the Select has no USB port and is not compatible with RM.

.

The R8247 is designed to get its power from the same DCC source as used to supply the track, whether it is the same or a physically separate BUS. If you are determined to separate the power feed and DCC BUS to the R8247s then, in the absence of a second RM compatible controller, you would need to use the 'R8239 Booster', but at £98 this is complete overkill for such a relatively small layout.

.

[Chrissaf]

Antony,

An apology and correction to my last post above. Having re-read the original post again, I have just realised that there is no mention of RailMaster. Thus the two controllers you have are an Elite and a Select. If you never intend to buy and use RailMaster, then there is no technical reason why you shouldn't run the locos with Elite and the points (via the three R8247s) with the Select. As long as the two controller outputs are and remain physically separate. This does still restrict your ability to upgrade later to RM if you choose to for the reason given in my first reply. Using two separate controllers isn't neccessary in my view from a power perspective, but I can see the advantage from an operational point of view. One additional control knob dedicated for points for example.

[peter_seaward]

Write decimal value 8 to CV8 to reset the decoder.

Some people have reported that a brand new R8247 straight out of the box, should first be connected to the main track for a minute or two to charge up internal components before attempting to program them on the programming track. It has been reported that without this initial charging process, programming issues can arise. Whether this is true or not is not worth debating, but it is worth trying. I programmed my own this way and had no problems at all.

.

Please report back for the benefit of other's if this helps resolve your problem.

 

[peter_seaward]

Antony,

I run six sound locos plus three R8247s operating 17 solenoid points on a 8ft x 6ft layout with RM / Elite on a single DCC BUS without issue. The R8247 draws approximately 14mA when idle with a surge (a couple of seconds) current when firing a point of about 150mA. The R8247 contains an integral CDU that stores & provides the pulse of high current to fire the solenoid. In English, what this all means is that the R8247 power requirement from your Elite 4 amp power supply is minimal to operate your points.

.

My second point is that you have stated you are using RM / Elite. If you use your spare Select to operate the points on a separate DCC BUS, then you will lose the ability to control your points by pointing and clicking your RM screen as the Select has no USB port and is not compatible with RM.

.

The R8247 is designed to get its power from the same DCC source as used to supply the track, whether it is the same or a physically separate BUS. If you are determined to separate the power feed and DCC BUS to the R8247s then, in the absence of a second RM compatible controller, you would need to use the 'R8239 Booster', but at £98 this is complete overkill for such a relatively small layout.

.

 

[peter_seaward]

I appear to have the same problem.  How do you access the screen to change the cv codes? 

 

I have clicked around the program screen without finding anything to amend other than the value for delay, the time of the pulse,or the always on check box.

[Chrissaf]

I appear to have the same problem.  How do you access the screen to change the cv codes? 

 

I have clicked around the program screen without finding anything to amend other than the value for delay, the time of the pulse,or the always on check box.

 

Peter,

As your question is not particularly clear, in fact it is quite vague, but I am guessing that your question is "How do I write decimal value 8 to CV8 to a R8247 Accessory Decoder to return it to the factory default configuration using RailMaster?".

.

On the basis that my guess is correct and that is the question you are asking, then follow this process.

.

1. Remove the R8247 from your controller DC track output connection.
2. Connect your R8247 to the Controller 'Programming' track output.
3. In Railmaster click on the 'Steam Train' icon on the top row between the 'Cog' and 'Stop Watch' icons. This is the "Set up Locomotives" option. Yes I know that your R8247 is NOT a loco. But this is the correct procedure to follow to perform a factory reset of your R8247 Accessory Decoder.
4. The "Locomotive" window will open. Ignore everything on this window except the " i " icon on the bottom left hand side row. Clicking this" i " icon opens the "Locomotive Settings" window.
5. In the "Locomotive Settings" window column 1 is 'CV' number, column 2 is 'Description' and column 3 is 'Value'. Place your cursor in the 'Value' column for CV8, and type the number 8.
6. Now click the 'Pencil' icon (Write CVs to Loco) located on the bottom far left side of the "Locomotive CV Settings" window.
7. Wait for the write process to complete, this may take about 10 - 20 seconds.
8. Click the Red X to Exit and close window on the "Locomotive CV Settings" screen
9. Click the Red X to Exit and close window on the "Locomotive" screen.

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Your R8247 should now be restored to factory default and have port addresses 1 to 4, to confirm this do the following.

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1. Click on the "Point and Signal" icon (Program accessory decoder) located top row of RM right hand side next to the 'Exit' icon.
2. "Accessory decoder" window opens.
3. Click on the "Green" arrow (Read decoder settings) icon.

If the four ports are read back as ports 1 to 4, then your decoder has been successfuly factory reset.

.

Note: I believe in RailMaster ProPack the Accessory decoder screen has an additional "factory reset" icon included. But for us mere mortals with standard RM, then for writing to CV8 we must treat the R8247 as if it is a loco decoder.

.

[Fishmanoz]

Peter, you seem to be jumping on the end of a number of threads now, saying your problem is like everyone else's, but not giving too much detail.  You really would be better off going to the blue Add New Topic button at the top of the screen to start your own and give us some real detail. And I suggest you do it from within the RM forum, not this DCC forum as your question seems to be about RM control of your decoders, not just DCC.

 

That is unless Chris's comprehensive answer above has solved your problem.

[Ajay1]

Antony,

I run six sound locos plus three R8247s operating 17 solenoid points on a 8ft x 6ft layout with RM / Elite on a single DCC BUS without issue. The R8247 draws approximately 14mA when idle with a surge (a couple of seconds) current when firing a point of about 150mA. The R8247 contains an integral CDU that stores & provides the pulse of high current to fire the solenoid. In English, what this all means is that the R8247 power requirement from your Elite 4 amp power supply is minimal to operate your points.

.

My second point is that you have stated you are using RM / Elite. If you use your spare Select to operate the points on a separate DCC BUS, then you will lose the ability to control your points by pointing and clicking your RM screen as the Select has no USB port and is not compatible with RM.

.

The R8247 is designed to get its power from the same DCC source as used to supply the track, whether it is the same or a physically separate BUS. If you are determined to separate the power feed and DCC BUS to the R8247s then, in the absence of a second RM compatible controller, you would need to use the 'R8239 Booster', but at £98 this is complete overkill for such a relatively small layout.

.

 Chris ,  thanks for the info you have provided above and I note your amendment to it.  So as I read it then I see no reason for me to run a second set of Bus wires for the points as the one set should be sufficient . I note also your point that runing a separate lot of wires for the points would hinder the use of me using RM at a later time,should I decide to do so. 

OK , that aside and me  being a novice at all this,am I therfore correct in doing the following for its installation?   Attach all the Point motors to the four input sockets (placing correctly each wire) to the Accessory Decoders , then is it simply a matter of  running the wires from each Decoder and attach to to the Bus wires under the table?    What about the programming of each Decoder and Point Motors? Would that have to be done before attaching to the main Bus wire, or can it be done after?

Antony

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

Ajay, as you say, you can simply connect your decoders to your DCC bus or back to your DCC controller as convenient.  But, assuming they are 8247s, you first have to program the port numbers on the programming track, so you need to connect them to that.

Also, when you are programming, don't set any to ports 1-4.  This way, if a decoder should reset when you haven't realised and you are running your layout ( 8247s are prone to reset from time to time), you will avoid accidental point switching if you switch any of real 1-4.  Doing so would also switch more points on any reset decoders and could lead to a pile-up.

 

[Ajay1]

Fishmanoz,  No, the point motors I'll be using are the Surface Mounted R8243's ,will the same apply? Also I'm not sure what you mean by "when you are programming,don't set any to ports 1-4"?  Could you elaborate a little please.

[Chrissaf]

Antony,

It is true to say that programming the R8247 is a much easier thing to do from within Railmaster than it is to do with an Elite controller. The Elite controller requires a lot of knob pressing and knob rotating, but here are some basics.

.

1. Firstly, the R8247s need to be programmed before you wire them in to their final locations. I did mine on the dining room table with my Elite controller and Laptop by my side.
2. To ensure trouble free programming I followed the forum recommendation of connecting my R8247 (like you I have three but I connected and programmed them one at a time) to my track output of the Elite for 30 seconds to charge up internal components.
3. I then moved the temporary DCC wires connected to the R8247 from the track output to the programming track output of the Elite controller.
4. Now in my case I programmed the R8247 using RailMaster, but in your case you will have to use the Elite on its own. I could provide step by step guidance here, but I would be duplicating what is already documented in the Elite manual. The manual also has the advantage of pictures. Programming the R8247 is described on Page 58 of the manual, follow the instructions there.

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Before you start programming you will need to devise your point numbering plan. As Fishman has said, some but not all R8247s (it is a bit of a lottery) have a tendency to suddenly reset (usually after an accidental short circuit) themselves back to the default address of ports 1 to 4. Of my three R8247s I had one that exhibited this behaviour. It irritated me so much that I bought a replacement (the original being out of warranty period). My three R8247s are now stable. The numbering scheme you devise MUST be in multiples of 4.

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That is for example:

.

1-4 (avoided)

5-8

9-12

13-16

17-20

21-24 (I suggest starting with 21-24 as it will be easier to remember the port (point numbers) by ignoring the leading 2. Thus you could think of ports (points) 21-24 as being 1-4, 25-28 as being 5-8, 29-32 as being 9-12. You will still need to enter the point numbers as 21-32 In the Elite to operate them though).

25-28

29-32

.

OK, you should now be in a position where you have your three R8247s programmed with new port addresses. The port addresses are ALL you need to configure at this time as the R8247 factory configuration defaults to the settings needed to operate a solenoid ie. R8014 / R8243 point. I would stick a small label on each R8247 with the newly programmed port address so that they don't get all mixed up later.

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I would recommend testing the R8247 on the table before fitting them to the layout. Move the temporary R8247 DCC wires from the programming track output back to the main DCC track output on your Elite controller. Connect one of your R8243 point motors to the first port of the R8247. Black wire to C, Red wire to + and Green wire to -. Follow the Elite manual instructions on Page 57 to select the appropriate port (point) address (the one you have just programmed to that port and labelled) and operate it. The R8243 should either click or fire depending upon its initial position. Note: It MAY NOT operate the very FIRST time it is fired (after being powered up for the first time), but should operate the second and subsequent times. This is something I have noticed with the R8247s. To be belt 'n' braces I would move the R8243 test point motor to ports two to four in turn and test each port individually.

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Once all ports on all R8247s have been tested OK, then you are ready to fit them to your layout and wire them into your point motors using the same Black Red Green colour scheme as documented above.

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[Fishmanoz]

Ajay, seems there might be slight confusion between point motors and accessory decoders type R8247.  Chris has just told you how to program the 4 ports on the R8247.  Then in layout design, you match the point numbers to the accessory decoder port you intend to connect them to.  Is that clear now?

[Chrissaf]

Ajay, seems there might be slight confusion between point motors and accessory decoders type R8247.  Chris has just told you how to program the 4 ports on the R8247.  Then in layout design, you match the point numbers to the accessory decoder port you intend to connect them to.  Is that clear now?

 

Just a point of correction Fishman. Easily done because as you pointed out there are multiple posters operating in this same topic thread. Ajay (Antony) doesn't have RailMaster he was asking about how to program R8247 using just the Elite. It is Peter Seaward who has RailMaster, but he was asking about how to do a factory reset. I think you may have got the two mixed up.

[Fishmanoz]

Oops, of you're right Chris but my point about programming decoders not point motors is still valid.

[peter_seaward]

Thanks for the information.   I am sure it will be useful at some time.    I am finding life very confusing without the hassle of things not working in a relatively easy plug and play mode.   I believe I have followed the instructions carefully but one missed click can throw things out.   I believe I was in the right thread as I was not getting any output signal from the R8247 decoder.  It appears that other people are having and have had the same problem.