XJR1300

@HornbyKiwi Hornby are using a well known, if somewhat crude method of sales prediction and stock control, it also helps controlling expenditure, their exposure and maxing out their profit. By having very long pre order times, often a lot longer than advertised as you mention. They are obtaining a way of determining demand and protecting themselves to a large extent against over producing and having too much stock sitting on the shelves. e.g. 10000 pre orders for a loco, a percentage will cancel, that is added to whatever number they allowed for their and retail stock. This method although crude works, it's cheap, downside is delivery times slip as often the item is nothing more than ideas or basic mock up or no tooling, if a totally new model. Hornby will be buying production slots, if someone comes along with a much bigger higher value order. They will take the capacity and Hornby get moved sideways or their run is split up. You could protect against that but you have to pay for it. The next level would be they take deposits. Which would mean they cover most of not all their setup, production. In my experience all tooling, set up and production cost have to be paid before Chinese companies release goods for shipping, that may have changed I don't know. Deposits are normally set around set at around 20-30% of total. It can be a lot more or less, it's all reliant on actual unit cost of the product, which can be pennies depending on what, how many etc. Some actual cost of production item values and what they are sold for here would shock most. Often running into 100s% if not 1000s% profits were huge, probably less now but still very high although things are beginning to level up post Covid. The remaining 80-70% would cover advertising, shipping, wages and the all important profit which can also be very high, all depends on unit retail value over tooling, production and other cost plus how many units you can sell. The issue with taking deposits you enter a contract, legally they must either supply or refund. If like Hornby you aren't cash rich and something happens in the supply chain, or you go bust etc you're exposed. The current way of no payment, means they can move the delivery or cancel to suit themselves, all at no cost.

@ColinB I too received a 12.5% discount code valid for 90 days I think it was, after I'd spend over £400. All very nice but really worthless, on a few fronts: - I'm unlikely to spend again until the summer/winter, discount will have run out.It's 12% off the highest price, most retailers offer a starting price as low or lower.As you say they offer discounts from purchases and club membership but you can't use both.Good Discounting comes as you buy not afterwards.Just more poor sales and marketing, leaving many like us feeling as we do.

Many Thanks

I've been given a R8213 Select Digital Controller, but it doesn't have a power supply. Will the P9000 transformer work?

@ColinB good to hear and hopefully they have started taking notice. Mine was better wrapped than the one SAM trains received and yours better than mine. I don't know what happened regarding SAM's Hush hush, he was returning it. Last he posted anything about it on his Youtube channel, he'd had no response from Hornby, there's been no further posts from him. Let's hope this improved packaging remains that way, all we've got to do now is get them to address the prices!

@ColinB mine was packed similarly although I ordered two loco's. Each was wrapped in bubble wrap, but the box they were then put into was too big, allowing them to move side to side inside. Both my front steps were loose on my Hush hush one hanging off, the other loco was fine. Whether the packaging to me was to blame or factory issues, who knows, the forums are full or reports of damage. The box wasn't packed out enough or should have been cut down to suit what's inside to keep it snug. This is what happens when you contract out, going for as cheaper price as possible. They use standard boxes, skimp on packaging materials and don't allow the time, as time, throughput is money, as they're packing for others. It's all about profit. Many are doing it now, I ordered a cup and a pin badge from the British Legion they came wrapped in box you could have put 20 cups in. I kid you not How it didn't break was pure luck. My order was the same box as shown on Sams trains Hush Hush video, on his there was no bubble wrap just the box.

The TV series suggests Margate.

@96RAF as @Leeberry50 states, no one is doubting your intentions or knowledge. But you (I assume) are not in Hornby's employ, someone else is and isn't/can't do their job. Not to mention whomever should be overseeing this element of the business to make sure they can. @Leeberry50 you're point of public knowledge, right on the mark. I myself am completely new to the hobby, only coming back to the hobby before Christmas, spurred on by the recent TV series. I can honestly say, that if any business wanted to make things, difficult and confusing for customers, Hornby would win by a country mile! It's reading things on this forum, the likes of SAMs, Jennifer E trains on Youtube, talking to retailers, the very retailers Hornby are not treating to well, that's got me buying their products. Had they not been there, I would have walked away, such is the poor quality of their marketing and sales buff, not to mention the not so cleaver website.

Total lack of quality control. They aren't going to listen either as they think they're superb, it's amateurish at best. It's very poorly written, completely misleading, they are running the risk of people preordering it, having to wait who knows how long to get it. Then finding out they've got to pay more for decoders to get it to steam/sound. If that is the case it will just upset people, who likely as not won't buy again, you couldn't make this stuff up and it's basic marketing/sales stauff. It's also possibly misrepresentation and could get them into trouble with trading standards, if someone's prepared to push it, along the lines of the Thunderbolt unfolding saga. I'm not going near this loco as much as I'd like one, until the full facts are out. Likely as not that won't be until, members are telling us on this forum!

@Leeberry50 There's a great deal on the website, in their catalogues and sales videos that needs making clearer. Being a very new returner to the hobby, I find their sales and marketing appalling, like you it left me with many questions. Not what a prospective buyer should be faced with. At prices now approaching £250 - £270 plus for steam generator and over £300 for top of the range Dublo locos, it's really very second rate. Which in my experience, is synonymous of a failed company being still run the same way and probably by a fair few of the very people who run it into the ground in the first place. They just can't see their own failings and never will.

Go for the simple, try powering the loco directly from the power supply, is the motor running? If yes it's likely a drive fault, worm or gear issue. No motor drive, it's a supply to the motor within the loco or a motor fault, lose/broken wire/connection etc. If the motor/loco is running fine by direct power, it's a track, power coupling fault.

@ColinB I my experience of dealing with development, sales and marketing which is extensive, albeit in a very different market. As mentioned in my previous post, I would question how and who's running the company! As it would seem all about about face, looking backwards or rather not seeing the faults of the past and correcting them, instead they appear to just be carrying on. I've seen this situation many times, in my experience, those who drove a company into the ground, can't then get it back into long term profit, with just money alone, as it was them who drove it into the ground in the first place! Doing the same old stuff, begets the same old results!

@Chrissaf Being very new I can't help thinking Hornby really don't want to succeed and would question how and who's running the company! Any company that sells products must ensure their products are properly advertised, in order to sell, grow and attract new customers. In my experience, younger customers won't spend too long looking for what they want, they just go elsewhere. It would appear from what you saying, they either don't know or really don't care and view their window to the world as not important. Fine if you are the only manufacturer/supplier, they're not. Instead they're relying on long standing loyal customers to keep putting their hands in their pockets! I must say the last few weeks of getting back into the hobby is being a real eye opener. As a new buyer to Hornby, spurred on by their recent TV series to get back into the hobby. It's hard work to find exactly what I want, with good levels of detail and that doesn't leave me with more questions than answers! The marketing and sales strategies of Hornby are a recipe for failure.

@Bulleidboy Sadly no, the online version has no such sections. Compared to Bachmann, where each model menu has detailed explanations and tells you exactly what's in the box. Hornby's online shop/catalogue is very poor. Speaking for myself it's actually putting me off buying direct from them, it really is very second rate at best IMHO. If as you say, the paper catalogue has sections and detailed explanations, I've yet to see one. I suspect Hornby are wanting to make customers pay for this info, by having to shell out £10.99 plus postage for a paper copy. I would be considered old my many these days, but all manner of manufacturers catalogues, for just about anything you can buy is now online and has been for at least 15yrs! What are Hornby thinking of, I wonder?

@Going Spare Okay, how/where did you find that information please?