What About The Bee

Charlie, at Chadwick, demonstrated a useful technique improving continuity. I cannot put my finger on the episode, he has so many. The technique relies on soldering a small loop of wire between each point blade and the corresponding wing rail. The wire must be a long loop, to permit motion without restriction, and further to that end, multi strand to be flexible. The loops reside in holes in the baseboard, under the point. There is a bit of fettling with the plastic sleepers. The power to the point blades is no longer necessary through the elbow, rather it flows through the loop. If I can find the episode, I will update Bee

Excellent idea @Rana TemporiaOnce forced perspective is accepted, then nearly any gift shop representation of a ruined castle will be fine. Opens up the selection quite a bit. Bee

There is one other very interesting data point, whilst we eagerly await Rana's measurement. Hornby Dublo was roughly from 1938 to 1963, right around the dates of Rovex Princess production. They would have used the commonly accepted OO standard. The Hornby Dublo type 00/1 transformer had output fuses. We discussed these awhile back. There was some uncertainty over the rating, until an image of a box of fuses was found. https://community.hornbyhobbies.com/forums/topic/34978-hornby-dublo-type-001-12v-transformer/?do=findComment&comment=371732 1 amp slow blow fuses. Consistent with the battery analysis. Bee

Hi Dave The GMC-100MO is rated at 2.5 amperes. My assessment is entirely based upon analysis, not first hand experience with a Rovex Princess. Yet, it is a fairly straightforward analysis. The Princess could run with an accumulator, batteries or a transformer. Carefully now, the Princess internals did not change when using any of those sources. As such, the analysis using batteries, provides us with some boundaries that will apply when selecting a power supply. The unit that trips most people up is "Ampere Hours" (Ah). This is related to, but not the same as amperes. With amperes, you are describing a limitless measurement. Draw 1 amp today, tomorrow, next week, next year. It is apparently limitless. Switching to Ah, batteries are not limitless, they have a state of charge, from fully charged (new) to discharged (dead). The 'h' in Ah is used to indicate the limited nature: hours. As in 'how long to flat?' So.... Amperes [for this many] hours. I hope that clears up the unit. And that is how to translate it. Simply divide the Ah by the expected number of hours and you get amperes. The critical question is then, how many hours. I used common sense, as your father did when he selected an accumulator, to pick a number of hours. Somewhere above 10 hours. So I conservatively picked 10 hours. More hours reduces the amperes supplied. Anything less than 10 hours and parents would be plenty upset. I have searched for the logical flaw in this discussion, and this may be the only spot. The number of hours directly affects the solution. I await Rana's measurement. Bee

Some unsolicited suggestions? Mount track in the cubby holes, so the locomotives sit on rail, not on wood. They will look more formally arranged, as the rail will be uniform, cubby hole to cubby hole. They will be less likely to go cliff diving, as the rails will prevent them from sliding towards the edge if bumped. Use the cubby holes that have a vertical stop on both sides. The locomotives on top left and top right terrify me. Voted most likely to go cliff diving. I think that looks very good indeed Francis. Locomotives, even off layout, deserve to be seen Bee

Hi @Davewill Preamble I think the Rovex took two 6V 'lantern' batteries. 6-volt lantern batteries can have different amperage ratings, including 4.5 Ah, 5 Ah, and 11 Ah Ampere hours (Ah) is a unit used to describe the number of amperes the battery can produce over a specific period, with the battery discharged to zero. Two lantern batteries, wired in parallel does not increase the voltage but does increase the ampere hours. Two lantern batteries, wired in series, does double the voltage to 12v, but does not increase the ampere hours. Discussion Rovex trains run on 12 vdc. No adjustment to ampere hour rating. So, for a 10 hour period, from fully charged to flat, a pair of 5 Ah lantern batteries, wired in series, will supply 0.5 amps per hour, for each and every of the 10 hours. This isn't quite perfect, as there will be a voltage drop over time. Even if the 11 Ah lantern batteries are utilized, over a 10 hour period, that is still only 1.1 amps. The amperes delivered halves if you choose a 20 hour discharge period OR doubles if you choose a 5 hour discharge period. You could also drain the batteries in one hour, and deliver a whopping 11 amps. I think 10 or 20 hour period selection is quite a reasonable and practical selection, but your mileage may vary. Further, the 5 Ah lantern battery the one used. Conclusion I would avoid the 2.5 ampere power supply, unless you intend to let all the magic smoke escape (burn the motor out). The 1 ampere supply is plenty Bee

I am pleased that following recommended practices has resolved a nagging issue. Good on ya! Have fun! You really should have a careful look at that front bogie, as many others have recommended. Bee

"No plan survives contact with the enemy" - Helmut von Moltke. Apparently the only person born in the 1700s to have his voice recorded. https://youtu.be/1BBkFacaBHY?si=DPXDdQm2Jj911AlS Hi Dukedog I absolutely second NTP's recommendation. "Chance favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur Get the plan right. Make sure everything is just so, on paper. The wiring, the kit, everything. Have a complete and accurate track plan. And then trial it. Bee

At your recommendation, I did. Wow! The bespoke track work into the station was simply .... well, for once, I may be at a loss for words [ 😁 Hilarious, I know! ] I frankly think their naivete about terminology charming. Terminology can be learned. Their enthusiasm seems genuine. They earned my subscription. Thank you for sharing Bee

Each of us finds the fun with different focus @Aussie Fred. it appears that for David Clarke, it was the creation of the signaling system, the point interlockings and the signal box. The layout exists to support that system, not the other way round. There is a line by the narrator, something to the effect that 'the signal box men drive the signals, And the train drivers respond to the signals'. The fun for the club appears to be Operations and in managing the Signal box. It may not be the fun I am after, but I can see those lads are knee deep! Bee

Whilst browsing YouTube, I encountered this The signaling and switching of points is mechanically linked to a signal box, or so it seems. 3 men to operate the signal box. 5 others to drive the trains. Trust me, this is well worth your time. Simply a marvelous layout Bee

That's a very convenient service and a 10% discount. Nice! Bee

I said good day sir @Silver Fox 17

Definitions Requirement : a thing that is compulsory; a necessary condition. Recommendation : a suggestion or proposal as to the best course of action I suggest you produce those exact words. We both know you can not. I am a reasonably disciplined correspondent and am careful with my words. I did say "Back to back opposite turns without an intermediate straight is a recommendation, not a strict rule." Perhaps you can locate that statement when you search my posts, in an attempt to prove yourself right, yet again. Good day sir. Bee

Can be no worse than my stuff 😁

But the locomotive in image #4 does not show the front bogie derailed. Of the three coupled axles, front to back, numbered c1, c2 and c3; axle c1 is still on rail, whereas c2 and c3 are derailed. Does a front bogie issue derail c2 and c3??? But not c1 nor the front bogie???? Does the front bogie re-rail itself???. That seems counter-intuitive to me. Bee

Excellent consideration Francis. Nothing fixed or permanent. You may need access to the underside of the baseboard. Having hard mounted shelves will interfere with that access Bee

Correct @Silver Fox 17, no one is forcing you to do it. You do not have to have it. Bee

😆😅🤣 The hoof, obviously. Its closest to the carpet. Bee

My ego is not wrapped up in being right. Let the data guide the outcome, not personality. It is entirely possible on the 16th revolution, @robert-1311322's locomotive derailed. He then performed other experiments or explored other options, like the front bogie. Perhaps he tried the second suggestion I offered and found an entirely novel problem and solution. Perhaps not. Much like the genuine, real life railways, there are sets of rules and recommendations. Not following those rules can lead to speed restrictions¹. Back to back opposite turns without an intermediate straight is a recommendation, not a strict rule. Its your railway, rule #1. A few counterpoints to your statement @Silver Fox 17. I hope that you see them as data points and not a personal attack. Mention of the number of carriages, coaches of indeed any quantity of rolling stock is not germaine to a discussion about a locomotive that derails, when the tender does not. While 9 coaches is an interesting figure of merit, it has little to do with Robert's problem. Similarly, Robert's locomotive problem does not involve any point going into an R6 opposite curve, so as to get a parallel siding. I do understand that you are conflating my back to back opposite turn recommendation, and accept that as a valid data point, yet it is entirely unhelpful to Robert in his circumstance. I would further suggest that ripping through that point, R6 configuration in real life, at maximum velocity, will result in equipment damage and engineman suspension for violation of speed restriction. Ask a real driver, @LesXRN. Layout Operators may wish to slow down through that configuration as well, remembering rule #1. Bee ¹ I have in mind a single track tunnel constructed a very long time ago, in which modern structure clearances were not prophesied. There is a speed restriction in that tunnel, and even with that, the walls are constantly bashed. This tunnel is a part of ancient US Railroad infrastructure and exists today. Too much downtime, too expensive to fix. Why not go to double track working anyway?

Inverse square law. Magnetic attraction decreases as the distance increases by the square . Conversely, magnetic attraction increases when the distance is reduced, by the square of the reduction in distance. Moving the magnets closer to the coil makes for a much more powerful motor, given the same voltage and amperage. It will generate more torque as compared to an unmodified motor. Therefore, your locomotive will start moving at a lower voltage than the same locomotive with an unmodified motor. The downsides? Controlling the gap becomes more and more critical. Loose fitting bearing surfaces can lead to the lamination and coils touching the magnets. If ignored, this can cause magnet and or coil failure. Higher magnetic forces lead to premature bearing wear, providing the loose fitting bearing surfaces. Bee

No worries @Bulver My initial thought was that you were after the Wrenn carriages, due to my faulty comprehension of your post and your childhood dreams. Upon re-reading your post I realized that you wanted the Hornby models and I had made rather a mess. Whoops! Bee

It is the windings that matter. Hang on to the motors you strip the brushes from, to use the casing as replacement as well. I was hopeful you would take the experiment on. Very much looking forward to seeing it. Bee

Hi Silver Fox I just asked Google for an N20 motor with carbon brushes. Quite a few popped up, some with images. Ebay has them too. Not hard to find Bee

This topic has my attention, because I suspect that a similar motor is in the OO LMR models and likely to be in Locomotion. The big concern has been regarding the precious metal fingers, which most apparently have a short life. So off I went, examining motors with an N20 frame size. The first criteria I selected for was voltage. Plenty at 3 and 6 vdc, some at 12vdc. None, absolutely none at 14 vdc. Now whilst I do not think 12 vs 14 volts is terribly significant, it is an over voltage of 18%. Is this arcing at the fingers? Likely not. The second criteria I selected for was carbon brushes. I found some in lower voltage ratings, but I could not find them in the 12vdc category. And then it hit me. I watched @Rallymatttake the precious metal brushes off of one motor, to install on another motor. Why couldn't a carbon brush be transplanted? The voltage limitation will be due to the windings, not the brushes. So transplanting the brushes will be fine on an existing 12vdc armature. Buy the wrong voltage N20 motor with carbon brushes and strip it for those brushes. It even has the identical bend tabs, to hold the plastic plate in place! Its just a thought. Bee