Re-wheeling Triang coaches from coarse to slim

[Jimbo1707820979]

Hello all. I have changed the wheels successfully and quite easily on several Triang Pullman "shorties" using R 8096 12.6 mm. diameter wheels. Very pleased with the improved running, especially over points. OK, all well and good. However, I am stumped when it comes to the "exposed-axle" variety, the ones with the split plastic axle covering and the metal axles showing through the lower chassis of the coach.

Is there any way of changing these without resorting to drastic and difficult (for a cag-handed individual like myself) measures ? Perhaps a kit of parts, or wheels that fit over the metal axles ?

 

[poliss]

 I believe people use replacement bearings. Markits M84 Romford 4mm Scale Plain Pin-Point Bearings could be the ones used, but you'd need to check. Possibly Peco brass bearings. Again, you'd need to check.

[Graskie]

All I would say, JP, is be careful if you do actually attempt to remove the old wheelsets. The open axle ends are longer by definition than enclosed pin point ones, and you could easily break an axlebox, especially as they will have gone more brittle over the years. I successfully converted my old short Pullman coach enclosed axle box wheels to metal ones many years ago, but left the open ended ones alone and sold them on.

[LCDR]

 When I have replaced the open ended axles I have driven the pin out gently with a piece of rod and a light hammer. Do not try and spread the axle boxes. The rod needs to be smaller than the axle. VERY gentle taps only! Only one of the wheels is fixed to the axle, by a crimp in the axle rod, the other should turn freely. It is easier if you drive it out from the free side.  You can see which is which if you turn the wheels in opposite directions and watch to see which axle turns.

 

Pin-point axles come in various lengths, the standard over pin-points is 26 mm (WARNING 25.5mm for new Hornby, 24.5mm for old Lima).  So you need to measure your new axles before you start, and also measure between the inside of the bogie frame. A Vernier gauge is handy for this.  You may need to either drill out the hole slightly or pack out the axlebox with a shim of thin plastic card depending upon the distance you arrive at. I used 'trial and error' at first because of the uncertainty with different eras of Tri-ang stock. I used Romford shouldered pin point bearings. You need to cement these into the prepared axlebox, but NOT until you have a secure but free running fit.

 

 

 

[Jimbo1707820979]

Thanks Graskie. I have reluctantly come to the same conclusion. I may just hang on to my 2 "un-re-wheelable" ones as spares or whatever. Values are so low it is barely worth putting them on eBay  and having to trudge to my nearest Post Office. I have put lighting strips, battery powered into 2 coaches and the motion-activated lights work beautifully and add a nice touch to my layout which is mostly about branch lines.

[Jimbo1707820979]

Many thanks, LC&DR. You have taken a lot of trouble in replying to my query. Much appreciated. Seeing this kind of expert advice gives me the comfort of knowing there are enthusiasts who really "know their stuff". I keep on learning never too old !

 

 

 

[Jimbo1707820979]

Thanks for the tip, poliss. I think, after reflection, I will folow Graskie's advice and steer clear of any of the exposed -axle models. I am very keen but know my limitations at the moment. Still learning .......!

 

[Buz]

 

Hi jimbopuff

Be prepared to loose some of your bogies or wagon frames ocasionaly the frames will disintigrate even with gentle treatment.

Because of a bad batch of the metal alloy they are made of I can't remember what wheels and bearings where used on mine

But once the bearings and wheels are in running properly and secured do take the extra time to fill the axle box

hole on the outside and paint black it gives a better quality of finish to the job

It is worth doing if you can get it right and have a lot of the old axle through box stock, its stuff you dont need to buy to get your railway running.

Locomotives are a whole different ball game I would pay some one to do those.

regards John

[LCDR]

 Apart from the 6"  coaches and early Transcontinental cars no coach bogies were made of Mazac (or any other metal) although the plastic bogies can be brittle too. Early 7" coaches were on cellulose acetate bogies which might have warped with age. Avoid these.  Personally I wouldn't attempt to re-wheel the metal framed bogies or the metal framed wagons either.

[Buz]

 Hi LC & DR

Well concidering I have only lost One TC coach due to bogie disintigration and One made in England 4wh flat top

Just the axle box disintigrated, if large quantities are involved I see it as being worth the risk.

And something could have been done with the coach if I had the eylet things and the right tool to flare them out.

As some suitable Hornby bogies all be it different modern ones could have been had for just a couple of dollars.

they would have saved the coach.

Just goes to show make sure you have the right tools handy for those OOP'S!! moments.

I might add if it was just one or two items I had needed to do I would just have checked the second hand market for later models of the same items.

regards John

 

 

[LCDR]

Hi  Buz,

If I need to change the bogie in a riveted Tri-ang coach I drill out the eylet's splayed end  but retain the residual brass tube as a sleeve. I then replace the eylet with 4BA nut and bolt through the sleeve with a washer top and/or bottom if necessary. A drop of glue  (or paint) on the bolt thread stops the nut working loose. This only works if you can remove the coach roof of course. Many early roofs were glued in. I have found the glue was not always applied consistently and have managed to prise some off with a little persuasion from a sharp knife and razor saw. One or two losses have occured on the way however so I don't recommend it to anyone else. The 9" Suburbans being the worst offenders.

I do canabalise old broken coaches and recycle bogies from any with broken bodies, and vice versa.

[mick948]

This seems a very good way of doing things:

[Rana Temporia]

I used to do the knockout the old axle and add new bearings thing but the plastic is getting more brittle as it ages And I got sick of having to replace the bogies anyway. I just go for new bogies now, usually taken from scrap more modern coaches at swapmeets. Regarding he wagons, I just replace the chassis with a more modern plastic one if it’s a wagon I haven’t got. There is always someone who wants the heavy cast wagon chassis on an auction site!

Also, the chassis on the cheap Lima 00 box vans are the right size for Hornby Dublo tank wagons, you just have to cut a rectangle of black plastic and the same size as the chassis to mount the tank on. 

[81F]

If you need to change triang rivited bogies there are tools and rivits available on ebay. Although I've not change one myself yet a good tip I have heard is to place some thin card between the bogie and coach body when you tighten up the rivit. Then remove the card afterwards. This should prevent the bogie being too tight.

 

Howevewr, as the only ones I've needed to change are Mk1 bogies a simpler solution is to buy new clip on ones which already have clip on axels. The othe ro[tion is to use the nut and bolt fixing that triang used on their long Mk1 coaches but these can be difficult to get hold of.