1/76th future

[Mad for it]

We have not enjoyed any 1/76th scale releases for a while. Any hints regarding future releases? I would like a new Sherman retool or a Landing Craft Assault.

[Czartank]

 I do wonder about the economics of the 1/76th range: They must have sold by the shedloads over the years, but Airfix have never seen fit to replace any of the existing moulds, while upteen new Spitfires are released every year. Has their research shown that it is not worthwhile to bring out, say, a new sdkfz 234; Have others, such as Armourfast, taken the potential market?

[nmcabecadas]

Long time ago, there are other brands using 1/76, as Matchbox, Fujimi or Nitto, but most choose 1/72 and now it become a standard. Was better to see new Airfix models, including figures, made in 1/72 instead of 1/76 and correcting a few "famous" mistakes, as those in the SdKfz 234/4.

[vimal_indrasoma]

 The old Matchbox/Revell armour kits had a charm of their own, coming as they did with little bits of diorama (I loved building the Wespe with its little date palm back when I was a kid).

However, I think the time has come to integrate the vehicles, figures and aircraft into one single scale. It won't be difficult to bring out all new re-tools in 1:72 and gradually replace and refresh the range. As to whether the 'HO/OO' figures are being 're-branded' as 1:72, I couldn't say - had scads of them as a child, but scales didn't mean much in those days when you're shooting at 'em with rubber bands.

 

My RAF Recovery set does say 1:76, though. as does the Battlefront set (I assume that includes the figures), while the D-Day offerings are all marketed as 1:72 (although the Overlord set is marked 1:76 on the box!).

[david_fleming]

So we do know that the original figures were all designed with trainsets in mind, as were the AFVs. As the market was sprogs, most of us sprogs weren't really aware of scale differences, until it was later pointed out to us as 1/76. Even then, we probably didn't care all that much...until we got more into the hobby.

Revell will still re-issue the 1/76 Matchbox kits, but otherwise, the scale has certainly died a death. Is the new USAF Bomber supply set really 1/72, 'cos the also-mentioned RAF Emergency, Refuelling and Recovery sets most certainly are not, even though they are listed as such. (Ain't that a breach of trading standards, by the way?)...or are they actually 1/72 and we've been previously mis-led?

All the current releases of the old Airfix vehicles are listed as 1/76th - the last 1/76th vehicles were the Cromwell, Tiger II and  QLD/QLT set. the more recent ones ARE 1/72 , although with the exception of the Higgins boat they are all aircraft related.

The figures are more subjective as they were originally marketed as OO/HO (which is a big difference).

 

Breach of trading standards? Probably not, in the days of the Trade Descriptions Act you could possibly have made a case  for a false TD (I did once consider one kit that was described as 1/72 when it was nearer 1/62) but under the Consumer Practices Regulations, probably not, and it's so immaterial that TSDs have better things to do these days

 Oh, Revell did release some of the MB kits listed as 1/72 at one point

[Braille Dave]

I'm not so sure that 1:76 has 'no future' as some upthread are inferring- there are manufacturers still only producing 1:76= MMS, Milicast & Matador, 

 

[Dad Paul B]

Flexible scales are not confined to the subjects discussed. In wargames figures '15 mm' and '25 mm' are highly subjective. The notional scale is that an average person will be represented by a figure of the stated height. Modern 25s can be anything up to ~35 mm (almost 50 % over sized). This makes the difference between 1/72 and 1/76 seem insignificant. I had quite a few vehicles in my first WW2 armies (a mixture of Airfix and Matchbox and even some of the polyurethane one piecers (can't recall the make). The school club had around 20 members and we each ended up with 20 - 30 vehicles so this could be financially viable if wargaming could pick up again. The current range of 1944 stuff gives a good kernal and the new Airfix Wargames might spark interest (maybe including force deck cards with each kit to allow rapid integration with growing collections).

Possible additions/re-releases would be a Sherman Firefly, 6 pounder with Jeep, Hanomag before branching out into the Western Desert and earlier phases. Maybe a Horsa and/or Waco to go with the Paras - the Italeri versions are showing their age, especially on exterior detail.

I think there is a seam to mine here if the new idea takes off.

[ntrocket88]

This is a tough one for Airfix. I always had the sense that military vehicles were an after-thought for Airfix. Their relative lack of interest as far back as the mid-1970's allowed Matchbox, Nitto, Fujimi, Esci and Hasegawa to individually develop larger ranges in 1/76 or 1/72, even in those days. Airfix released around 22 1/76 military vehicle kits in the 1960's, 13 in the 1970's and 1 in 1980. Matchbox alone released some 27 1/76 kits from the early 1970’s through the early 1980’s. More recently, Airfix added 5 minor variations to existing kits in 2006 and released 12 former JB Models kits in 2008. Since then, only three new 1/76 kits have been released. However, Airfix’ current 1/76 range is too large to quickly replace with new 1/72 versions, but too small to stand alone against the mass of injection-molded 1/72 vehicles available. Although the number of 1/72 military vehicle kits now selling suggests a vibrant and lucrative market, perhaps many potential buyers may not care about the scale difference? That leaves Airfix with the dilemma of what to do next: Keep going with 1/76 to match the existing 55+ vehicles, hoping that many buyers won’t care about the difference or, switch to 1/72 for new vehicles and risk damaging existing 1/76 sales even further, with no realistic chance of rapidly replacing them. The recent 1/72 airfield vehicles may indicate a shift in policy, or may just reflect Airfix sitting on the fence.

I would add that 1/76 is still a viable standalone scale, at least for WW2 vehicles. But only when Airfix kits are backed by the full Matchbox (which Revell may not support) and Fujimi/Nitto ranges, with fill-ins by resin and white-metal kits from Milicast, MMS and Matador. However, that still leaves the quality problem, with newer 1/72 kits far surpassing the older injection-molded 1/76 kits in accuracy and detail.

Just a few thoughts, FWIW...

[Dad Paul B]

I think that Airfix Wargames might get things going. The current range as the core vehicles for Normandy to get things started. Concentrating on the Western front to begin with could suggest a gradual series of additions. For example

StuG-III (most common German AFV in Normandy), Hotchkiss H-39 (No, I am serious. These were the most seen German Tank on D-Day itself and made life hard for the 82nd Airborne until Allied armour got ashore in reasonable numbers). Another possibility might be to cross box some of the old Matchbox kits if Revell still have the molds and are willing to licence them instead of producing themselves. A few extra decals would be useful here to cover more than one vehicle in a unit (so only numbers really need to change). Then some more British (starting with the Sherman and adding a Firefly) before starting on the Russians (A T-34, some lend lease decalling and 1 or 2 other bits would get things started). Then branch out with earlier/desert stuff starting from the Matilda, Lee/Grant and adding Pz III, II and Cruiser tanks as well as the Stuart/Honey. The guns will crossover with desert paint schemes so some alternative boxings/decal schemes might strech a small range a reasonable distance.

This wouldn't be for the hard boiled modeller (who will probably be working in 1/35) but might be popular with gamers and youngsters and could be tested slowly. My personal favourites were the Scorpion/Scimitar (Airfix) and the Matchbox M3 'Honey' with its hexagonal rivetted turret.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 

 Search 1/76 kits on Hannants, then do the same for 1/72.....The answer is pretty obvious.

 

Scale modellers like to model in a common scale and not all of them have model railways.

 

Even (some of) the cottage industry resin manufacturers are moving away from 1/76.

 

Hmmmm......Deja-vu anyone? 

[peebeep]

Personally I think that 1/76, if it's not actually dead, it's certainly moribund. Quoting cottage industry support is also a dead end, Airfix need to sell in tens of thousands to make it a worthwhile exercise. Time to let 1/76 die and launch a new series in 1/72, assuming they still wish to offer modellers AFV and softskin kits. The only thing preventing this is the extensive tooling that could still be used to manufacture kits - the execs face the same quandry with the ship kits.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Simple.....Phase them out and replace them, starting with the worst models and particularly those that are likely best sellers if redone properly, then throw in the odd 'Airfix Special' to liven things up (ie: do exactly what they have done so succesfully with their old 1/72 aircraft range).

 

I'd suggest something like this:

1/72 M4A4 Sherman V

1/72 Panther Ausf A - Main Production Series (massive yawning gap in the market, Revell & Italeri are utter rubbish, Dragon have taken a lunge but based on their CAD their forthcoming kit is junk too)

1/72 M4A4 Sherman Vc Firefly (Tulip RLs included for Guards Armoured)

1/72 Bergepanther Ausf A mit FLAK.38 (only available as resin conversions and you need two of those, plus OKB tracks to build an even vaguely accurate one)

1/72 Sherman Crab

1/72 Panther Ausf A - Early Production (with a Borgward would be great)

1/72 Hamilcar Glider & Tetrarch Light Tank.....This would be the 'Airfix Special'

 

I said I don't go in for wishlists and TBH, while this might closely resemble one, it really ain't one.....But it does suggest how, with careful investment in just a couple of high quality tools, Airfix could jump into the 1/72 AFV market as a serious player, with a chunk of the market all to themselves.  Airfix reputation in the 1/72 aircraft world has been literally transformed over the past decade and I can see no reason why Airfix couldn't do the same in the Braille Armour field too, if they so desired.

 

[Braille Dave]

Quick bit of research reveals to me that the two biggest ranges of braille scale vehicles are both exclusively 1:76; MMS with 250+ items, and Milicast with.... Wait for it... 800+ items.

 

Langley Models have only got 170 items and RTI continue to withdraw and release, both in exclusively 1:76. Matador bought out a number of different companies, over the years and consequently have both 1:72 and 1:76.

 

John Day, and AS Models produce exclusively in 1:76

 

.....Hannants list 700ish 1:72 items from all manufacturers.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 

You are not comparing like with like at all.....Neither the MMS or Millicast lists are exclusively vehicle kits (many of their offerings consist of little more than a MG or a couple of figures). 

Must I really list everything from every 1/72 cottage industry producer that I'm aware of?  

It might take quite a while.

 

 

[Simon Norton1707820138]

 

You are not comparing like with like at all.....Neither the MMS or Millicast lists are exclusively vehicle kits (many of their offerings consist of little more than a MG or a couple of figures). 

Must I really list everything from every 1/72 cottage industry producer that I'm aware of?  

It might take quite a while.

 

 

Sarge. If you are going to disparage another commentator at least check the facts first. Milicast have 600 vehicles in their Battlefield range and 731 in their Premiere range, although there is a lot of overlap. MMS have 186 vehicles in their range. 

The debate between 1:76 and 1:72 has so far ignored that there are two different audiences. Model makers who wnat something as accurate and detailed as possible and wargamers who want somethng accurate but relatively cheap and simple to build  and will probably want several of the same kit. Generally speaking 1/76 AFV kits are £6-8 and 1/72 £10-15. I'd argue that there is a market for 1/76 kits as long as the price is right. Historically 1/76 was well served by Nitto, Fujimi, Airfix and Matchbox who pretty much covered all the main WW2 AFVs, soft skin vehicles and artillery. In contrast to 1/32 where there are only a handful of examples by Airfix and Monogram compared to the hundreds of 1/35 kits.

That said I don't actually see much of a future in 1/76 at the moment. Revell only have 4 old Matchbox kits in their range currenltly and more than half of the Airfix kits are out of production. Too many of the Airfix kits are from the 1960's, of dubious accuracy (Sherman, Panther, Tiger, Armoured Car etc) and in need of retirement. 

 

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 I don't believe I was disparaging Dave or his comments, I certainly didn't intend to.....The fact remains that the 1/72 market is by far the larger of the two and Airfix have a massive (& still growing) investment in 1/72 aircraft.

For them to continue to focus on 1/76 vehicles under those circumstances seems a bit foolhardy to me.

I grew up with these kits too and as it happens I'm also a wargamer (mostly PC these days), but I've also always been a bit of a scale fanatic.  I still remember the day I built my first Hasegawa Sherman and parked it up alongside the Airfix kit.....I was utterly mortified, at all of about eight years old (I guess growing up surrounded by architects and quantity surveryors may have had an influence).

 

 

[Jonathan Mock]

I think the issue is that with mainstream scale scale armour is now almost exclusively 1/72, and the bulk of the old Airfix armour range being 1/76, where do you go? Jump onto 1/72 and the 1/76 afficionados will say it's not their scale and doesn't match the rest of the range; do it in 1/76 to the match the legacy of the range, and the 1/72 fans will say that it's a dead scale.

 

Obviously if the 1/76 range is still selling and making money, then it makes no sense to ditch it. If the numbers are enough to keep going but below justifying the expense of a new tool, then it's a grey area.

 

Me personally, I'd agree with Andy/Sarge and start replacing some of the stalwarts (sic) in the range like the Sherman and Panther with new 1/72 kits. The casual market won't care much about the scale difference (I've mixed the two scale for years), and it gives Airfix a footing in the 1/72 market which is where the future is.

 

Which leaves 1/76 a bit of an historical bygone really, much like 1/32 as an armour scale, or 1/50, 1/100 and 1/125 as aircraft scales. The aftermarket sector would have to fill in the gaps, but if the scale is becoming so niche, then maybe that's no bad thing.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 The Airfix Panther would be almost as accuarate as a representation of a Stalwart as it is of a Panther!  =)

 

Technical question for any Airfix bods who got lost and found themselves in here.....Can you guys do zimmerit?  An accurate Panther Ausf A must have it, no exceptions, ever!  I'd prefer to see it as an etched add-on rather than moulded, allowing the modeller to damage and deform it.....This would also allow Airfix to offer several sets featuring the various different patterns used.

 

PS - Airfix, if you don't already have a copy of this in your library:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51301YZ2AKL._SX357_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

You really should get one!

[Ratch]

 You're only likely to get one if there's one in a museum Airfix can LIDAR.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 Take your pick:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=surviving+panther+ausf+a&biw=1920&bih=924&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZqL-gs5jKAhXI1RQKHakTDPgQsAQIKg

[ntrocket88]

 If Airfix do release a new Panther (in 1/76...), let's hope they don't copy one with a collapsed suspension this time!

[Braille Dave]

Actually, I didn't feel that disparaged....(I did actually only count vehicles)

 

And, Sarge I wish you would (but only ones I can get in the UK)- I'm not so wedded to 1:76 as you think I am...

 

I've long since accepted that in order to complete my grand project I'm going to have use both scales. It's just that I feel Airfix's ancient vehicle sets are actually quite good, and they're one of the few mainstream companies that actually do WW2 British Softskin. Unfortunately, the others seem to think that Allied= US. IBG's erstwhile QLs (even with their faults) excepted.

 

And...finally, I don't think wargame=1:76 is as clear-cut as is being inferred. Most of Milicast & MMS offerings are way better detail and accuracy wise, than some of the mainstream offerings.

 

In fact isn't 1:100 the wargaming scale now?...as witnessed by Zvezda's range? Makes sense to me- easier to scale distances (in metric anyway)

[Sgt.Squarehead]

 Dave, if you have a hitlist of vehicles you are hunting, e-mail it to me.....I order from T&T a couple of times a year as a rule and would be happy to pick stuff up for you when I do so next.

[Jonathan Mock]

 If Airfix do release a new Panther (in 1/76...), let's hope they don't copy one with a collapsed suspension this time!

And put it in the desert!

 

[nmcabecadas]

Was the "Tuning Panther" version, a low profile, wide tracks desert racer :)