Go_West Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 A few years back I built a simple radio control system for the Hornby live steam as some people have large layouts and even garden layouts It was thought that this would be of use and it worked well.So thinking on, a second system was going to be built which could follow the first idea or as is becoming more clear a new system from the ground up but still using the Hornby Power unit.The static Hornby system way of control these engines is one I am happy which I am happy with for standard running but can be challenging when shunting, It is hope to control the heater setting from the transmitter and this is the place to start The 3 heat setting and OFF position will be as the Hornby idea with a rotary switch and a interface PCB on the receiver end to change the heat setting 4 LEDs on the front panel will show which heat setting has been sellecte, this prototype board is pictured here below and shows it with the radio and battery connected the servo will not be used but is just to show a standard radio type layout.in the picture all 3 LEDs are on showing that the high heat setting is solected/media/tinymce_upload/589d8a4ce10077a7c9da32fb6a77bad0.jpgThis information was sent by the transmitter and a picture here show's the rotary switch replacing the joy stick control unit which was removed./media/tinymce_upload/7e452779297ac5ad508febdeb95c17c9.jpgThe right hand side of the transmitter will house the regulator lever for forward and backwards the switch on the top left hand corner will be the power OFF reset.so just how this all turns out is in the air it keeps the engines as standard with no changes which is fine as to try to fit a radio receiver and servos to an engine is almost impossible and running more than one engine on the standard track would generate high loads that would cause problems.Still a long way to go yet so see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Watching with interest, even though I don't have any live steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Thanks 2eI think you could use the same idea for standard garden layout but with all this new digital train stuff no doubt you can get an appt for your phone now.i like you foot note if it works first time you've done something wrong?Very good you must be the type of bloke that has tried many ideas your self. Still back to the unit's still loads to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hi updateSo far so good the control box is coming on OK but its when you say that things go wrong still the control for the 3 heat settings and Forwards/ Backwards and power ON/ OFF all work alright.So still some way to go but have a look at the picture./media/tinymce_upload/d2ee458de546ca2ad57fdfd70b650f3d.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 That looks very good gowest - can't understand much of it but hey ho! Look forward to seeing, hearing more in due course. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 It might help to say what the parts in the box above will do this may make things a little clearer I'm working with electronics from the past no doubt more modern chips would work better and take up less room but for and old guy that started with valves then transistors then IC I'm happy to work with Them.if we look at the 2 vero boards in the bottom of the box these are the interface boards that can be tuned to the different parts of the transmitted signal on a given chanel so if chanel 1 has a variable resister and the resistor is rotated at a given point in the start of the resistors travel the movement is stopped then the small black square pot can be set to match the signal and the LED lights on the board and the relay closes.now moving the variable resister further say to a halfway point in its travel and again adjusting to second pot on the board to match the now new signal the second LED lights and second relay closes.now moving the variable resistor to the end part of its travel and once again setting the third pot to this setting and the LED lights and the relay closes, now in one action of channel 1 we have 3 different relays switching at different points in the transmitted signal. All we have to do now is change the variable resistor for 4 position rotary switch and resistor network we have the 3 position heater set up as the Hornby controller The blue components are the relays these need to be wired to the small board above that is PWM and will adjust the power out put for the track and the engines heaters.So using the same design the second board with 2 of the blue relays are for channel 2 and with micro switches and variable resistors fitted to the transmitter the Foward/Backwards can be controlled.And channel 3 will use the last blue relay for the power on/off reset to achieve this the 230 AC live wire to the Hornby power unit will be wired to the relay contacts so turning off the power unit And giving a reset.The red coloured board is the timer unit for the servo motor inside the engine and will be adjustable it is hoped, the small box to the right in the box is the receive.and the transformer will supply a DC voltage for the electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 It might help to say what the parts in the box above will do this may make things a little clearer I'm working with electronics from the past no doubt more modern chips would work better and take up less room but for and old guy that started with valves then transistors then IC I'm happy to work with Them.if we look at the 2 vero boards in the bottom of the box these are the interface boards that can be tuned to the different parts of the transmitted signal on a given chanel so if chanel 1 has a variable resister and the resistor is rotated at a given point in the start of the resistors travel the movement is stopped then the small black square pot can be set to match the signal and the LED lights on the board and the relay closes.now moving the variable resister further say to a halfway point in its travel and again adjusting to second pot on the board to match the now new signal the second LED lights and second relay closes.now moving the variable resistor to the end part of its travel and once again setting the third pot to this setting and the LED lights and the relay closes, now in one action of channel 1 we have 3 different relays switching at different points in the transmitted signal. All we have to do now is change the variable resistor for 4 position rotary switch and resistor network we have the 3 position heater set up as the Hornby controller The blue components are the relays these need to be wired to the small board above that is PWM and will adjust the power out put for the track and the engines heaters.So using the same design the second board with 2 of the blue relays are for channel 2 and with micro switches and variable resistors fitted to the transmitter the Foward/Backwards can be controlled.And channel 3 will use the last blue relay for the power on/off reset to achieve this the 230 AC live wire to the Hornby power unit will be wired to the relay contacts so turning off the power unit And giving a reset.The red coloured board is the timer unit for the servo motor inside the engine and will be adjustable it is hoped, the small box to the right in the box is the receive.and the transformer will supply a DC voltage for the electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yes, well....... there you are then........ good job you know what you're doing, that's all I can say. What's is like to be clever? :-) R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 No not clever just a dabbler that some times gets his fingers burnt. And some times gets it to work.i was lucky to work for a company that had loads of people much brighter than me and if you had a problem be it mechanical, electrical, hydrological or numati or even types of procedures in making anything. There was someone that you could pick there brainsAll these people went years ago when the factory closed and 4000 went on the scrap heap and manufacturing ended.we had a saying at work about calling people an expert it was........ "An X is something that was and a spurt is a drip under pressure" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 /media/tinymce_upload/8271ee277e4b1bdb1fca79bb65ef9798.jpgStill at it with more and more it's starting to grow as the front panel gets the treatment but still not sure how many manual controls to fit to this part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Well starting to get somewhere the only thing is I don't have a garden railway welli do but that's 7.25 gauge just not 00 gauge still if it works then I will add some pictures and maybe a video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yes please, I'd love to see that. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yes please, I'd love to see that. R-Ditto... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hi R & RAFThank will see what can be done, getting things to work how I wish and dreaming up new ideas as I go along tends to slow down the progress a little one thing that I have built into the system today is the ability to select the delay ON of the low voltage that operates the servo motor as some of us no doubt have grown up with this way of driving and why change it. So with this in mind if you look at the picture below of the front panel to the far right is an over bright white LED just about visible is the timer control knob.The idea is that you can set this knob from 0 to 3 seconds so that when you flick the lever once the timer will hold power to the servo motor for the lenght of time selected this will be interesting to see what happens?/media/tinymce_upload/345a07d60174a6817692227e946ea664.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 If you keep getting your fingers burned, Gowest - try picking up the solderng iron by the other end! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 2eyou joke but many years ago when working at Marconi,s I was moved to TV test to help with the work load this was just before colour cameras came out so was with the BW mk6 I think any way there I was working on a 6 foot rack of electronic Camera control equipmen, we had100 watt adcola soldering iron in them days great you could solder a front wing on a car with them I laid the iron on the concret foor as I thought it was time for a coffee and went off to the tea machine I had a chat with mates and made my way back to TV test as I walked in the door people were moaning about a funny smell I looked over to where I was working and smoke was drifting up behind the rack I was working on so nipped over quick just in time to see my soldering iron slowly disappearing into the floor. I then realised that this floor was made of tar Mac not concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 To day almost finished the wiring so time to test the control system with an engine In steam, and in brief not bad parts worked ok parts did not so with a bit more testing I'm hopeful to iron out the faults like we have only forwards and heat setting work back to front but the adjustable regulator timer worked a treat the transmitter side or radio control also worked fine. I think that this system is a bit over kill as a radio control system and my old idea of tacking a receiver onto the Hornby system is less complicated and time consuming and would only need 2 wires and 2 diodes in the Hornby box to become a radio control system.In the pictures here one with the engine running in steam./media/tinymce_upload/c2908f03699caadf1233e15249e3dad2.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/86b4c801217816002763d3bf90cfbadd.jpgHer indoors want some decorating and LED down lighters fitted so might not get around to some video yet but stay there once I've got the brownie point then stand back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Looks good, Gowest. One minor point, you might find you get better response and control if you shield the receiver from all the electronics (and rf noise) in the box, and move the antenna further away as well, if you can.I know you aren't looking for 2Km range, but at the same time, you don't want a live-steam runaway if the rx gets swamped when you go onto a 'real' track outside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 That is really nice work GoWest. i eagerly await the video. i agree with 2eric about shielding. I put a backlight in my Elite and the electro-lumi sheet driver box generates AC so I covered it in sticky backed foil taking care obviously to stay insulated from the main PCB components - seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Good point 2e I could gain more room by turning the RX on its side and fitting and aluminium shield connected to earth as for the airealon 2.4 g it's just a short bit of wire might be able to fix it closer to the box side what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 That might work GW, but you could make it 'prettier' by using a couple of sheets of copper-clad circuit-board, on edge, to form a screen around the rx, and solder the copper to the earth (or neg ve) of the circuitry. If you don't care what it looks like inside, a recycled bean tin will serve just as well. Aluminium, of course, will not solder.If the rx circuit board has a screen side and a component side, mount it so the screen side is towards all your other electronics, this will help to reject internal noise.I can't see from the pics, but does your rx have a single wire antenna, or two? If two, they should be located at 90' from each other, one horizontal (ish) and the other vertical. If only a single wire, try to mount it vertically, when the containing box is in it's normal working position.2.4 Gigs is a 'lazy' frequency, where the radio 'waves' refuse to go through anything - instead they just bounce off and wander around randomly, so any bulky metallic objects can 'blank' the antenna, and cause a signal drop-out or generate ghosts so the rx 'sees' two lots of data with slightly different timings, something to bear in mind if you wander around with the transmitter!Also, if you can, set up the 'fail-safe' - if the rx is so fitted - to ALL-STOP, then in the event of a signal loss, there shouldn't be any panic, with you burning your hands on the hot boiler as you try to catch the escaping loco! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hi 2ethe RX does have components on one side mainly and the aireal is just a bit of what looks like PTFE wire about 4" long see picture the box is all plastic but will try to keep the aireal wire vertical inside the box for best reception What do you think. /media/tinymce_upload/37576e44360f0270405d8c760df3cc7b.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I can see that better! Yes, keep the side of the rx you have facing up in that pic facing towards the other electronics, as far as you can.The rx aerial is just the silver bit on the end! The section in the insulation is really very fine coax, and the piece inside the coating is the screened length, allowing the aerial proper to be positioned better. You can gently bend it if needed, but keep the silver part straight, and AWAY from any volts, or it will fry the rx. If it isn't likely to get knocked, bent, or pulled, drill a 1mm (or smaller) hole in the side of the plastic box of all the gubbins, and poke the aerial outside through it, getting it as far away as possible from being blocked by something, or picking up noise. Or, make a slightly larger hole, insert an offcut of plastic coating off another bit of wire, and feed the aerial out through that, to give it a bit more protection.(Can we talk about protection on here?? :-) )I said the side of the main box, because that puts the aerial at 90' to the circuit boards inside, thus reducing the chance of any noise pick-up. Without going into radio propagation theory, and blinding you with science, that's the best way. If you like, it puts the back of the aerial to the noise, so it doesn't hear it so much, the same way you would turn your back on a strong wind, so your eyes didn't water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted January 18, 2016 Author Share Posted January 18, 2016 Thanks you've been a real help will try to put all that into practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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