Point control

[Dazzler down under]

Hi everyone,i was wondering what would be the best scinario for nice easy control of points on a small dcc layout 12"x6" double loop with a station area and a few sidings,layout is a very simple and will be scenery based but  contains 14 points. My question is am i best off going for dcc control of points via the accesory decoders or am i better off controling points the old anologue way with a switch for each point. If i have 4 locos running on the layout im a bit worried about changing points on the elite as things might get a bit busy having to key in different aderesses ect for points while trains are running, it seems simpler to just have switches for each point? Or is dcc control of points simpler then ive envisioned? 

Also, in regards to wiring a bus,i figure if im going to the trouble to wire the points, i might as well wire up a bus to ensure reliabile running.can anyone point me in the right direction as to how i can wire up a dcc bus?

 

thanks in advance for any feedback and suggestions.

 

Dazz

[Spireblade]

If you have the Elite but no Railmaster then personally speaking I would go the way if analog switching. As you say, it may get a bit hairy punching buttons on the Elite.

If you have Railmaster as well as the Elite and preferably touch screen then I would go the DCC route.

Just my opinion really.

[Dazzler down under]

If you have the Elite but no Railmaster then personally speaking I would go the way if analog switching. As you say, it may get a bit hairy punching buttons on the Elite.

If you have Railmaster as well as the Elite and preferably touch screen then I would go the DCC route.

Just my opinion really.

Thanks for the feedback, no i dont have railmaster, train control will be thru the elite only. Analog switching seems the simplest solution and i have plenty of spare controllers laying around. Cost wise it works out about the same but the dcc route might pose hidden costs i havent factored in like having to boost power supply ect to power all the points? 

Thanks again.

[Flashbang]

DCC point operation from a DCC console is somewhat cumbersome. So I would advise to go along the analogue route of point operation, unless you are seriously thinking of computer control.

For analogue operation you will need a suitable power supply - ideally 16volts AC at around 1.0 Amp. Suitable momentary levers or toggle switches. If switches are used then consider toggle switches of the On-Off-On sprung to centre off type or two Press to Make non locking push buttons per direction.  A CDU (Capacitor Discharge Unit) is always worth considering too. Normally only one is needed for the whole layout. Note: A CDU is not recommended for use with the Hornby R044 black point levers due to their internal switching arrangement, but is fine with all other makes of passing contact lever or switches or even Stud & Probe.  Wire with 16/0.2mm equipment wire throughout.

 

As for a DCC bus pair consider either 32/0.2mm equipment wire or solid 1.5mm2 wire used for lighting circuits stripped from the outer grey sheathing. You can of course use a larger wire size and this may be necessary depending on the size of the layout and the length of the bus wires.

 

Wiring of a bus pair and much more is shown here if its of help?.... http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC.html

[2e0dtoeric]

My preference is a toggle-switch set so that the toggle shows the direction of the point, and a 'press-to-test' type momentary switch to provide the pulse of power. This means two switches for each point, but once wired up, is so much simpler than trying to remember which address which point was, call it up, then trigger it, whilst the running loco crashes into the other one you parked out of the way!

Keep the under-board wires colour-coded - that makes it easier to trouble-shoot any faults - ie red from the power to the switches, yellow and blue to the left or right coils, and black the common back to the power supply.

(Edit - yes I know a CDU usually takes 16v AC!)

[Dazzler down under]

Thanks guys, i think ill go the analog route, i can see things getting messy with th digital route. Last thing i wanna do is outlay the money to find its too complicated to control points and trains from the elite. Ill make do with a bank of switches, ill be using the black hornby switches as i already have a few laying about.

 

flashbang, thats exactly the info i was looking for regarding the bus, the books and websites ive been looking at make things look way more complicated then they need to be. Thanks for pointing me towards that page its brilliant and is very simple to understand. Many thanks.

 

[Chrissaf]

Dazzler, you probably didn't know but Flashbang IS Brian Lambert.

[RDS]

... to find its too complicated to control points and trains from the elite ...

 

 

Dedicated as I am to DCC, I think you are making the correct decision.  I have never even attempted to control any of my points via my Elite as I much prefer to operate them via the Track Layout diagram provided on RailMaster (RM).  If I ever need to operate them when RM is not running, I just operate them manually.  If I didn't have RM, I am pretty sure I would have gone the way you are suggesting.

 

By the way, have you considered RM?

 

Seeing as you already have the Elite which interfaces with RM perfectly and RM is currently available for only £5 from that well known Model Shop in Liverpool, it is well worth considering and will give you the best of both worlds with either Manual Control via the Elite, computer control via a PC, or a combination of both at the same time if you wish.

[Dazzler down under]

I read on another thread just yesterday about Flashbang thanks Chrissof, you guys have been helping folk on the hornby forums for years, we are lucky to have people of such calibre continue to contribute to to our hobby there is no substitute for experience hence why i have returned to the forums after a year or 2 hiatus on my layout, im close to making my layout permanant so i wanna make sure im making the right decisions, Brians website will cop a thrashing over the next few months.

 

So railmaster, im not schooled up with it, dont really know anything about it, is it a hornby concept? I do know it allows for pc control of trains and points but what does it eliminate? Switches?

 

is there a thread already dedicated to railmaster that will give me the full lowdown?

[96RAF]

There is a whole section of this forum dedicated to Rail-master

 

What RM gives you is screen control of your layout via a pc based application. To be able to fire points from the screen you need to set them up under DCC control with accessory decoders driving the motors. Using the screen bypasses having to fiddle with the controller, but it is still required to pass commands from RM to the track.

 

There is a way of having the best of both worlds with your points control by having the old manual switching firing the motors direct with the DCC side firing into the coil of a rely which closes the main contacts to again fire the analogue system you already have.

 

No doubt from reading up on Brians pages you know there are very many methods of selecting and firing points manually, probe and stud, sprung switches, pushbutton switches, etc. I use rotary switches to select the point (6 to a switch in my case) and push buttons to fire straight or  branch. I then have the relay system to tie in the DCC side.

[Dazzler down under]

Yeah just found the railmaster section, ill school myself up with it maybe im best off going that way, i like the sound of cpu control Ill look into it before i spend any more money on switches(provided i dont need any with the RM route)?

[2e0dtoeric]

Flashbang IS Brian Lambert. - - I didn't know, either! 😳

[RDS]

... So railmaster, im not schooled up with it, dont really know anything about it, is it a hornby concept?  ...

 

Yes RailMaster is a Hornby Product.  It is a Program that runs on a PC.  It is avaialble with a controller called eLink or it is available as a Standalone program that can be used in conjunction with the Elite controller.  

 

There are many uTube videos showing its use.

 

You can download a trial version from the Downloads section of the Hornby Website  and that would be a very good place to start.  It would eliminate your switches, although you will need to wire your Point Motors to Decoders.  There are many members on this forum who use the Elite Controller in conjunction with RM.  Because the website always has the latest version of RM (compared to a DVD that may be many months old) it is advisable to download the trial version and then upgrade it to a full version using the code that is contained within the DVD, that as I mentioned in my earlier post can be obtained currently from one supplier for just £5.

 

The only additional item you will need to get it working straight away, if you download the trial version, will be a USB lead to connect your Elite to a PC.  It is the type normally used to connect a printer to a PC.  The trial version gives you access to the full facilities of RM but only allows the control of I think, 2 Loco's and a limited number of Points.  It also has a time limit and I can't remember if this is 30 days or 90 days.

[96RAF]

... before i spend any more money on switches (provided i dont need any with the RM route)?

 

You don't need any switches with RM but you do need accessory decoders either Hornby R8247 or other manufacturers products supported by RM and they ain't cheap.

[Dazzler down under]

Great info guys, im tempted to go the RM route now lol.its $80 AUD for accesory decoders down here so its not much difference in price i guess. Had a look at my local model shop on the way home from work they are asking $100 just for the RM dvd it sounds a bit steep ill look around for that $5 version and get it sent by mail i think but i hate waiting, ill use the trial version in the meantime and sus things out, i like the idea of no switches, can RM be hooked up to an ipad as well as pc?

[choralc]

DazDU unfortunately buying from the UK is often the best option for aussie British Outline modellers. I can recommend Hattons as they have reasonable postage charges from the UK to Australia.

 

Also, consider buying direct from Hornby even if you don't qualify for the members' discount when ordering GBP125 (I think) as the postage is then free and comes by TOLL courier to your door. You can get a combination of R8247s and point motors to go with them for that amount.

 

Both of these 'sellers' also sell to Australia VAT free (20%) off their retail price So £100 becomes £80.

[RDS]

... ill look around for that $5 version ...

 

5£ not 5$.

Do you have relatives or friends in UK?

 

[Fishmanoz]

If you do go down the £5 route Dazzler, once you receive the CD, throw it in the bin as it's useless.  What you are paying for is the licence and activation code, you get the latest version of the software from the link at the top of the RM forum and you've already said you are going to do this to check it out as a trial.  Just activate the trial you have when you get the code.

[Dazzler down under]

 I have bought a bunch of stuff from the UK over the years but never from hattons I'll give it a shot I thought I herd a while back that they closed down the retail store and you can only buy online now is that true? Just curious.

 

So on the weekend I'll download the RM trial and get some locos running just need a printer cable and I'm good to go. From there I will activate the full version once I get the code from the cd, hopefully I find it for £5 I'll be stoked cause I didn't back a winner in the cup yesterday. All my reletives from the UK have either past away or migrated to Oz so unfortunately I have nobody left that can run errands ect for me over there.

 

ill let you all know how I get on over the weekend once I'm set up. Thanks for all the info guys you are all champions.

[96RAF]

If you do go down the £5 route Dazzler, once you receive the CD, throw it in the bin as it's useless.  What you are paying for is the licence and activation code, you get the latest version of the software from the link at the top of the RM forum and you've already said you are going to do this to check it out as a trial.  Just activate the trial you have when you get the code.

 

Its a pity Hattons couldn't throw it in the bin for you and just email the code, saving on manpower, materials and postage for what is in effect a complete waste of resources all the way to Oz.

 

I've just ordered up 2 but it was a struggle to find them - had to use advanced search and look for Railmaster - but to maximise on postage I trawled for something else to add and finally decided on a shuttle unit for my soon to converted tram.

[RDS]

... and just email the code ...

That's why I was asking about relatrives in the UK

[Dazzler down under]

Ok so after downloading the RM trial and having a play yesterday ive decided to go the RM route, not only will it cost about half the price but how good will it be to be able to change  points without having to remember adressess  or what switch controls what point ect. RM really makes it simple to control a layout I cant believe it guys thanks very much for the heads up.  Now im busting my gut to upgrade to the full version to open up the full potential of RM and add all my locos to the lineup,and i bet there will be a few more surprises that will add to the enjoyment, im already impressed with the trial, love how it has all the hornby models programed in so you get a nice little pic of each model too, nice little touch, just gotta sort out how to add a few locos from another manufacturer lol. But the thing i really loved about it was that because ive gone with a hornby track plan(2011edition-plan7) the layout was already pre built into the software, minus a few sidings that ive added due to having a bit of extra room.

 

Managed to locate the £5 version of RM, will order it this week along with my accessory decoders and point motors to make it worth sending by post, gonna have to tell the missus its an early christmas prezzy or something, she's not gonna be impressed.

 

thanks again for taking the time to offer your expert advice guys, its been invaluable as always, has saved me a few hundred $, simplified control and has opened up some new doors.

 

Many many thanks 

Dazz

[96RAF]

Just remember that you can (once RM is unlocked) modify that set track plan to include your extra bits but you MUST save it to a new name else when you do any updates to RM it can and will be overwritten by the default track plan and you would lose your changes.

[Chrissaf]

......just gotta sort out how to add a few locos from another manufacturer.

.

Dazzler, I wrote a tutorial that included how to add NON Hornby locos to RM in this previous post:

.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/r3459tts-decoder-not-recognized/?p=1/

[Dazzler down under]

Excellent Chris, thats exactly how i did it even added all the sounds it was pretty easy, ive ordered up the £5 RM a 2 point motors and 1 accessory decoder the whole lot cost AUD $80 including postage im happy with that. Id only have got the decoder down here for that price they should be in the mail today i cant wait till it gets here im tempted to call the shop and ask if they will open the dvd and give me the code lol.