Using a QSI decoder with the Elite

[Dazzler down under]

On a side note I do think it's a compatibility problem between decoder and controller it's like it's only half programmed the decoder  or something. The elite is doing some wierd things with this loco since the update, I can't turn sound on and off, I'm hearing random sounds I shouldn't be hearing unless I turn the throttle but it's making them whilst stationary. Function 0 now has a voice that reads back the loco Id thru the loco speaker. none of my other Hornby or Bachmann locos have such issues.

[Dazzler down under]

On a side note I do think it's a compatibility problem between decoder and controller it's like it's only half programmed the decoder  or something. The elite is doing some wierd things with this loco since the update, I can't turn sound on and off, I'm hearing random sounds I shouldn't be hearing unless I turn the throttle but it's making them whilst stationary. Function 0 now has a voice that reads back the loco Id thru the loco speaker. none of my other Hornby or Bachmann locos have such issues.

[Dazzler down under]

Would that be the cv that controls the speed steps HFM? The problem im having seems to be to do with continuity but ill have a look thru rm and see what i can find.

 

So with the new update when i press function twice (9-19) to activate function 12 now i just press 2 is that right?

 

[Chrissaf]

So with the new update when I press function twice (9-19) to activate function 12 now i just press 2 is that right?

.

Yes

.

My Elite when purchased had firmware 1.41 - I don't think this behaviour changed in either 1.42 or 1.43

.

So for me, the button pressing description you have stated has always been the case i.e. press the Function button as many times as is needed to display the Function range, then press a single keypad button to choose the required function within that range.

.

First Function button press = F0 to F9 - press keypad button 0 to 9

Second Function button press = F10 to F19 - press keypad button 0 to 9

Third Function button press = F20 to F28 - press keypad button 0 to 8

Fourth Function button press = Function Display Off

Fifth Function button press = No Function display

.

Sixth Function button press = F0 to F9 - press keypad button 0 to 9 and so the cycle starts all over again.

.

Note. The Functions 'lock on' and a 'Function Number' ON indicator appears in the very bottom row of the Elite display. You have to press the same Function Number again to reset that particular Function off again. Take a 'play once' whistle or horn for example. If you don't perform the second Function button press to turn the Function off it isn't reset to accept the 'play once' function again the next time you want to play it. ** As you scroll through the different Function button pages, then the Function Number display at the bottom of the LCD screen is updated with what Functions are 'ON' relative to that particular Function page.

.

Note** this is opposite in RailMaster. The Functions do not 'lock on' unless the text "on/off" is included on the soft button label.

[Dazzler down under]

Ok so ive got the cv screen up on rm, 3801 is on the programing track, loco cv settings screen says CVs range to read 1 to 255. So if i hit the green tick now will that read all the cvs? Then if i wanna rewrite a cv i select the cv and hit the write cv to loco icon?

 

ah huh, just tried to read the cvs and i got the message this loco chip cant be found in the decoder database so i think we might have found the problem. It says to contact hornby with the values of cvs 7 and 8 and a pdf guide for the decoder.Problem is i have no idea how to attain a pdf guide for the decoder.

 

any ideas?

[Dazzler down under]

Scrap that, i think Rob has found it for me back on page 2

 

http://media.wix.com/ugd/0f7119_b9bbe010cb084a5aa5d4caebcc30a883.pdf

 

Id say thats it?

[Dazzler down under]

Thanks for clearing that up about the functions function Chris it was a bit confusing ive only had this loco on the track to test and it has 16 functions and they were all over the shop but ive got it sorted now. Thanks again.

[96RAF]

The problem you have Daz is if RM misreads CV7/8 which it can, then you are sending RM duff gen.

 

I have looked in NMRA S-9.2.2 Appendix A - list of manuf IDs and only QSI is listed as ID 113 and they only do the sound files according to my post on page 2.

 

I cant find Quantum in the list unless somebody knows if it has another name on the ID list, or it comes under the loco manuf mantle.

 

But I would think the pdf should be a good starter for RM to include your decoder in their database.

[96RAF]

@Chris

The Elite access to the extended function set (F0-F28) was introduced at v1.4.

Rob

[Dazzler down under]

Dont know if it means anything to you guys but cv 7 reads 007 and cv 8 reads 113. 

 

Ill contact support with those details and the pdf and see what happens. 

 

Sorry this has dragged on for so long i get frustrated and ive just gotta walk away sometimes.

[96RAF]

CV 8 value 113 is the ID code for QSI (Quantum).

CV 7 value 7 is the decoder revision state so that makes sense also.

Rob

[Dazzler down under]

Ok so ive contacted hrms and have had a reply, they need to contact the manufacturer of the decoder for more infomation as the 450 page pdf did not have the info they were looking for to enable them to add the decoder to their database. However, they seem to think, as i suspected, the problem  is with the elite and have directed me to hornby customer support, as adding the decoder to the database wont solve this issue. 

[Fishmanoz]

You need to ring HCC.  You may well pass on to another life waiting for them to reply to an email. Ask for Mark Lodge via the Contact Us number at the bottom of the site.  He will ring you back if not available.

[Dazzler down under]

I messaged them before Christmas regarding a loco with mazak rot and they replied the next day. If I get no reply I'll call them. 

[Dazzler down under]

It's hard to call them because I'm at  work during their office hours being a shift worker.

[Fishmanoz]

You'll need to find a way.

[Dazzler down under]

Yeah the automated reply said it could be 28 days for a reply. Ill call them tonight.

[Howbi]

Dazzler.........I noticed a new thread today in HornbyDCC re TTS decoder CV150-154 to which Chrissaf responded with a link to Tony's Trains which you may find useful to read, particularly this para..........

QSI Industries

The new release level 7 (also the upgrade) of the QSI decoders has a very sophisticated four level speed control using Back-Emf and PID. Information on setting up the PID CVs is in the DCC Reference Manual version 4.0. Version 7 is the new upgraded chip available from QSI Solutions. A new page manual can be downloaded from QSI Solutions web site. The setup information can be found starting on page 170 to page 175. There are some good hints on tuning PID parameters. The CV values in these (upgrade) chips have been established by running a number of sample locomotives. As locomotive wear and due to manufacturing differences, some locomotive performance may be improved by re-tuning the CV values.

 

HB

[Fishmanoz]

Interesting HB given the symptoms could conceivably be due to PID values being way of the correct values.  Remember, the motor only turns when the throttle is being varied, possibly due to PID values damping it to zero speed when way off correct values.

 

Or I could really be talking through my hat this time.

[Dazzler down under]

Hmm, that is an interesting development. Now could someone be kind enough to dumb it down for the lay man? 

Ill have a read thru this new Manuel and see what I can turn up but tbh I think it's a bit above my head but I'll take a peek.

 

This whole saga has put me off Australian outline, I'll always have doubts as to weather or not it will run on the elite so from now on I'll stick to getting locos with no chip and chip them myself with decoders I know work with the elite and just not worry about sound.

[Howbi]

Dazzler........it's worth pointing out that the Hornby Elite controller is manufactured to a set of NMRA requirements and guidelines............DCC decoders, however, comply to NMRA standards for a basic group of CVs but different manufacturers then enhance their product with other features and benefits via CVs which cannot guarantee to be compatible with every make of controller.........so it could well be that the QSI decoder falls into this catagory and that there is nothing wrong with your Elite.......... 😀.............HB

[Fishmanoz]

Not sure if that's quite true HB?  Clearly the CVs can relate to differing parameters, but surely the way of reading and writing the value stored in them must be the same.  They must after all only be 8 bit binary registers.

 

Dumbing it down Dazzler, two things to try.  In your manual, find a CV that has different values for different motor algorithms and try any/all other algorithms to see if one gets it working.  If that doesn't work, reset the decoder (8 to CV8?) and try adjusting the default algorithm P and I (and D) CVs drastically down from default and see what that does.  If no different, try adjusting them drastically up.  Good luck.

[Dazzler down under]

Thanks Howbiman, that makes sense. I just spoke to a guy from Eureka Models, as soon as i mentioned the elite but without mentioning any symptoms he said they are aware of the problem and as far as they know there is no fix. He says the elite is complient, but not fully complient so ill never get the loco running on this system. But my confidence in his answers took a dive when i mentioned swaping the  decoder, he said no decoder would work regardless, i then said im using hornby and dcc concepts decoders in my hornby locos and they work, what if i put one of those in the 3801 im thinking it should work, then he agreed if they work in my hornby locos they will work in the 01 so im not sure he knew exactly what he was talking about??? Howbiman's  explination makes way more sense. Then i explained to him the symptoms, i get sound and lights but need to rotate control knob back and fourth to get the loco to move and he was surprised i could do that much with it. He has put me in touch with a guy who apparently knows everything about these decoders and said if theres a fix this guy will know about it so ill touch base with him and see what i can turn up. In the meantime ill read up on all that information provided by HB and see if i can find an answer. Was too busy to call hornby yesterday but im off work tonight so ill drop them a line also. Ill let you all know how i get on, and thanks again everyone for the time you have spent helping me sort the issue, i owe you all a video of this thing when i finally get it running. 

 

[Dazzler down under]

Thanks Fish, later on ill take a look, but on the elite im having problems reading any cvs and on rm it only lets me read up to cv8 but ill get on and have another try and report back.

[Fishmanoz]

Don't have to be able to read, have to be able to write.  The manual will tell you algorithm codes and PID defaults so you will be able to write different algorithms and drastically up and down PIDs.

 

I realize it's a problem if you can't read to see if the write worked though.