Brightstar Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I was looking at the service sheets for the A3 and A4 Live steam locomotives and I was wondering if it could be possible to build a live steam loco from a set of spare parts or acquire a Loco body shell and Tender for Papyrus and convert a Flying Scotsman to one. It would depend on the availablity of the spare parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaj Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Another way to have steam is to put a smoke generator in the loconotive. This will not work on every model though so aybe you're Idea would work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Ah, but the smell and sound of live steam would be missing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmichel Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I am having real difficult finding parts for live steam. Hornby is not responding on this website, and dealers tell me they can't obtain parts, or they use some other form of words to indicate they can't send me parts. It is becoming very frustrating. If anyone know how to obtain spares, please let me know at rgmichel2008 @ me.com (no spaces) or post the supplier on here, whichever your prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Brightstar said:I was looking at the service sheets for the A3 and A4 Live steam locomotives and I was wondering if it could be possible to build a live steam loco from a set of spare parts or acquire a Loco body shell and Tender for Papyrus and convert a Flying Scotsman to one. It would depend on the availablity of the spare parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Hello Brightstar,I have found a model shop who have provided me with a very comprehensive supply of spare parts at fair prices.They seem to have good contact with Hornby for spares and are very efficient and reliable.I'm not supposed to give their details on this site so if you would like their contact details either post your mail address here or, if you prefer, contact me via Adrian at the Live Steam Club, he has my email address.However, beware that building a loco by purchasing spare parts could prove very costly.Also note that Hornby will not supply spare parts that are considered safety critical.Best regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Brightstar said:The best engine to use is the A3 it has all the major parts made just a bit smaller than the A4 and will make most of the other large loco types out of this engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... PlanesTV Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 We at the OO Live Steam club have been talking about whether a group of us could start a cottage industry making a batch of locos using our individual skills and expertise; one person do the soldering, one do the machining, one the drilling, one the painting etc.It is even conceivable that with access to Hornby parts and the right quality control over-seeing, Hornby might commission the work. It would make a change to have "Made In Britain" stamped on them and if we did not charge our time I might get my 9F at a competitive price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brightstar Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Eric001 said:Hello Brightstar,I have found a model shop who have provided me with a very comprehensive supply of spare parts at fair prices.They seem to have good contact with Hornby for spares and are very efficient and reliable.I'm not supposed to give their details on this site so if you would like their contact details either post your mail address here or, if you prefer, contact me via Adrian at the Live Steam Club, he has my email address.However, beware that building a loco by purchasing spare parts could prove very costly.Also note that Hornby will not supply spare parts that are considered safety critical.Best regards,EricHi Eric,Could you e-mail the details to remichel (above) as he is desparate to get spares for his A4. His e-mail address is in his posting.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brightstar Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Eric,That should be rgmichel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 PlanesTV said:A 9F would I think be easy, as I am still building my SR Schools which as a 4-4-0 is a bit of a challenge as its much shorter then the A3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Brightstar said:Hi Eric,That should be rgmichel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hello Brightstar,I don't have his mail address and can't see one in the forum.Not allowed to post contact details of model shops here as it is classed as advertising.Can you, or he, post his mail address or get my address from Adrian.I'll be happy to pass on the contact details.Best regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brightstar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Eric001 said:Hello Brightstar,I don't have his mail address and can't see one in the forum.Not allowed to post contact details of model shops here as it is classed as advertising.Can you, or he, post his mail address or get my address from Adrian.I'll be happy to pass on the contact details.His e-mail address is in the 4th Posting of this link. He has dis.guised it with extra spacesBest regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brightstar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I was thinking that for shorter models (0-6-0 or 4-4-0 etc.) you could convert a carriage or truck to carry the heater that is now located in the A3 & A4 tenders. It would be easier with an 0-6-0 as it could be close coupled to the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Don't forget that the body shells for live steam are made of special plastic to take the heat and ordinary bodyshell is likely to melt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Brightstar The 0-6-0 tank engine might be just too small but the side tanks would be a good place for the electroics with the SR school engine im trying to keep the cab detail as it would be on full size and not like the hornby one's fill it with red and green lights and relays which i do not like so means redisgning the P.C.B. which will fit i hope above the servo motor along with a new saftey valve. As for the shell this is brass and one of P.D.K model kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I am of course refering to some of the suggested conversions with ordinary plastic bodies. These will probably end up as a melted blob on someones track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 One interesting conversion I have seen recently is a rebuilt W1 class Baltic "Super A4" in live steam using an existing A4 chassis and body, what sort of heat resistant plastic was used to stretch the body and do the extra detailing I am unaware of, but the loco was running successfully at exhibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 PlanesTV "We at the OO Live Steam club have been talking about whether a group of us could start a cottage industry making a batch of locos using our individual skills and expertise; one person do the soldering, one do the machining, one the drilling, one the painting etc.It is even conceivable that with access to Hornby parts and the right quality control over-seeing, Hornby might commission the work. It would make a change to have "Made In Britain" stamped on them and if we did not charge our time I might get my 9F at a competitive price!"I doubt it that would happen there are so many things that would be needed PlanesTV, it's a nice dream but the cost of each model would be out of the reach of most even with volunteer labour. You need a injection moulding expert(not easy to find), access to Hornby's designs and suppliers, new moulds typically at £100,000 each to develope, or moulds not in current production most of which are likely to be in China. Then you need injection moulding machines most likely to be in China, first rate top of the line CAD people to do design work, PR and sales staff, all the supply of spare parts set up, production schedules, a first rate planner and it goes on. All very expensive to do even on a volunteer basis. Then you carn't put Made in Britain on them as most of the parts will be China made, the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe, but I know there are loopholes in that ruling, the best it could be assembled in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,Depends on the approach. You are right if you start from scratch and I agree about the cost of the moulds. The amount of money Hornby must have invested in design, prototype testing and tooling manufacture, for every component, well I can't even begin imagine. Then set up a manufacturing plant, hmmm...Then market the product and sell to make a profit?Manufacturing in Europe? a none starter, too expensive. But Hornby will no longer make this product and the design drawings and tooling must still exist.Adrian might not be so far off if he and a group of enthusiasts could acquire the design drawings and tooling. And if Hornby would sell at a knock down price? After all, they're not worth much to them any more.I've seen so much ex production equipment and tooling scrapped off in the industry I work in. Will this happen to Live Steam?Personaly I don't think it would be too difficult to find a company to make, and design, injection moulds for new types of loco. But, as you suggest, extremely high cost!I've recently acquired a selection of LS spare parts and when you examine these you can see they are of the highest quality, absolutely first class!Feasilble? needs a huge amount of enthusiasm and....hmmm and tons of money.Otherwise, hats off to the designer(s)and Hornby. What an incredible product you have produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,I do see a lot of people that want a new LS engine and cost is not a problem its time and the skill to grab the job by the throat and go for it you may end up with a load of scrap but if you don't start then nothing will be achieved. As said before I have a west country and a schools on the go both are running chassis and the body is one of P.D.K kits and very good they are have just finished a DVD that will send to Hornby about the schools running round my track (just the chassis) forwards and backwards with 2 carriges on. When hornby made the A3 the parts lend them seleves to be made into most types of engine and any 4-6-2 will be no problem what i like is a challenge so a short engine like the schools 4-4-0 is keeping my little grey cells going after these 2 are finished I like an L1 tank which would make a great engine. As the transistion from Flying S to Schools continues I have loged all the changes and one day will see if a Model Mag would run it then any one could have a go.Hornby made a great job of this product but with these new people in westminster chopping away at all things (i see the last train manufacturer in the UK is closing down) hornby my well hang onto there money and spend it on items that will sell better world wide so dont see any LS any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... poliss Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 "the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe,"You believe wrong. It isn't illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 That's good Poliss I know the EU was talking about outlawing Made in Great Britain markings and they did disappear from items made here for a while. Obviously it didn't go through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would like to see more live steam "Gowest" but I think pockets will have to be very deep to buy such a model, brass body kits will be expensive and production of the models if using the special heat resistant plastic will be expensive, well out of reach for the average man in the street in price terms in current times.The biggest problems I have outlined. It's not just the squirting of plastic into a mould.Tons of money would be required to set up a proper tiny production line. Each of those little parts will cost money to produce and will have to be produced in bulk to keep costs down to the minimum. Finding UK maufacturers of the parts will be a problem if you are going down the Made in Great Britain route as a lot of the old UK parts makers the likes of Hornby and Tri-ang used in the made in Great Britain days have long gone. You could go down the assembled in Great Britain route of course with Chinese made parts, or you could make the parts in house, this will required shipping tooling and equipment back from the China factory.Retail cost per unit would be the biggest problem assuming Hornby would help, with such small batches the price is going to be considerably higher than a normal run model, most likely around the £500-£600+ mark per model.It's an interesting dream and if someone or a group has deep enough pockets, it could be done. I for one would love to get involved in such a project, although at the moment will my business not doing much and no jobs about money is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Archived This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. Go to topic listing All Activity Home Forums Hornby Live Steam Build your own Live Steam Locomotive
PlanesTV Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 We at the OO Live Steam club have been talking about whether a group of us could start a cottage industry making a batch of locos using our individual skills and expertise; one person do the soldering, one do the machining, one the drilling, one the painting etc.It is even conceivable that with access to Hornby parts and the right quality control over-seeing, Hornby might commission the work. It would make a change to have "Made In Britain" stamped on them and if we did not charge our time I might get my 9F at a competitive price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Eric001 said:Hello Brightstar,I have found a model shop who have provided me with a very comprehensive supply of spare parts at fair prices.They seem to have good contact with Hornby for spares and are very efficient and reliable.I'm not supposed to give their details on this site so if you would like their contact details either post your mail address here or, if you prefer, contact me via Adrian at the Live Steam Club, he has my email address.However, beware that building a loco by purchasing spare parts could prove very costly.Also note that Hornby will not supply spare parts that are considered safety critical.Best regards,EricHi Eric,Could you e-mail the details to remichel (above) as he is desparate to get spares for his A4. His e-mail address is in his posting.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Hi Eric,That should be rgmichel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 PlanesTV said:A 9F would I think be easy, as I am still building my SR Schools which as a 4-4-0 is a bit of a challenge as its much shorter then the A3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Brightstar said:Hi Eric,That should be rgmichel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hello Brightstar,I don't have his mail address and can't see one in the forum.Not allowed to post contact details of model shops here as it is classed as advertising.Can you, or he, post his mail address or get my address from Adrian.I'll be happy to pass on the contact details.Best regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brightstar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Eric001 said:Hello Brightstar,I don't have his mail address and can't see one in the forum.Not allowed to post contact details of model shops here as it is classed as advertising.Can you, or he, post his mail address or get my address from Adrian.I'll be happy to pass on the contact details.His e-mail address is in the 4th Posting of this link. He has dis.guised it with extra spacesBest regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Brightstar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I was thinking that for shorter models (0-6-0 or 4-4-0 etc.) you could convert a carriage or truck to carry the heater that is now located in the A3 & A4 tenders. It would be easier with an 0-6-0 as it could be close coupled to the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Don't forget that the body shells for live steam are made of special plastic to take the heat and ordinary bodyshell is likely to melt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Brightstar The 0-6-0 tank engine might be just too small but the side tanks would be a good place for the electroics with the SR school engine im trying to keep the cab detail as it would be on full size and not like the hornby one's fill it with red and green lights and relays which i do not like so means redisgning the P.C.B. which will fit i hope above the servo motor along with a new saftey valve. As for the shell this is brass and one of P.D.K model kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I am of course refering to some of the suggested conversions with ordinary plastic bodies. These will probably end up as a melted blob on someones track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 One interesting conversion I have seen recently is a rebuilt W1 class Baltic "Super A4" in live steam using an existing A4 chassis and body, what sort of heat resistant plastic was used to stretch the body and do the extra detailing I am unaware of, but the loco was running successfully at exhibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 PlanesTV "We at the OO Live Steam club have been talking about whether a group of us could start a cottage industry making a batch of locos using our individual skills and expertise; one person do the soldering, one do the machining, one the drilling, one the painting etc.It is even conceivable that with access to Hornby parts and the right quality control over-seeing, Hornby might commission the work. It would make a change to have "Made In Britain" stamped on them and if we did not charge our time I might get my 9F at a competitive price!"I doubt it that would happen there are so many things that would be needed PlanesTV, it's a nice dream but the cost of each model would be out of the reach of most even with volunteer labour. You need a injection moulding expert(not easy to find), access to Hornby's designs and suppliers, new moulds typically at £100,000 each to develope, or moulds not in current production most of which are likely to be in China. Then you need injection moulding machines most likely to be in China, first rate top of the line CAD people to do design work, PR and sales staff, all the supply of spare parts set up, production schedules, a first rate planner and it goes on. All very expensive to do even on a volunteer basis. Then you carn't put Made in Britain on them as most of the parts will be China made, the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe, but I know there are loopholes in that ruling, the best it could be assembled in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,Depends on the approach. You are right if you start from scratch and I agree about the cost of the moulds. The amount of money Hornby must have invested in design, prototype testing and tooling manufacture, for every component, well I can't even begin imagine. Then set up a manufacturing plant, hmmm...Then market the product and sell to make a profit?Manufacturing in Europe? a none starter, too expensive. But Hornby will no longer make this product and the design drawings and tooling must still exist.Adrian might not be so far off if he and a group of enthusiasts could acquire the design drawings and tooling. And if Hornby would sell at a knock down price? After all, they're not worth much to them any more.I've seen so much ex production equipment and tooling scrapped off in the industry I work in. Will this happen to Live Steam?Personaly I don't think it would be too difficult to find a company to make, and design, injection moulds for new types of loco. But, as you suggest, extremely high cost!I've recently acquired a selection of LS spare parts and when you examine these you can see they are of the highest quality, absolutely first class!Feasilble? needs a huge amount of enthusiasm and....hmmm and tons of money.Otherwise, hats off to the designer(s)and Hornby. What an incredible product you have produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,I do see a lot of people that want a new LS engine and cost is not a problem its time and the skill to grab the job by the throat and go for it you may end up with a load of scrap but if you don't start then nothing will be achieved. As said before I have a west country and a schools on the go both are running chassis and the body is one of P.D.K kits and very good they are have just finished a DVD that will send to Hornby about the schools running round my track (just the chassis) forwards and backwards with 2 carriges on. When hornby made the A3 the parts lend them seleves to be made into most types of engine and any 4-6-2 will be no problem what i like is a challenge so a short engine like the schools 4-4-0 is keeping my little grey cells going after these 2 are finished I like an L1 tank which would make a great engine. As the transistion from Flying S to Schools continues I have loged all the changes and one day will see if a Model Mag would run it then any one could have a go.Hornby made a great job of this product but with these new people in westminster chopping away at all things (i see the last train manufacturer in the UK is closing down) hornby my well hang onto there money and spend it on items that will sell better world wide so dont see any LS any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... poliss Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 "the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe,"You believe wrong. It isn't illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 That's good Poliss I know the EU was talking about outlawing Made in Great Britain markings and they did disappear from items made here for a while. Obviously it didn't go through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would like to see more live steam "Gowest" but I think pockets will have to be very deep to buy such a model, brass body kits will be expensive and production of the models if using the special heat resistant plastic will be expensive, well out of reach for the average man in the street in price terms in current times.The biggest problems I have outlined. It's not just the squirting of plastic into a mould.Tons of money would be required to set up a proper tiny production line. Each of those little parts will cost money to produce and will have to be produced in bulk to keep costs down to the minimum. Finding UK maufacturers of the parts will be a problem if you are going down the Made in Great Britain route as a lot of the old UK parts makers the likes of Hornby and Tri-ang used in the made in Great Britain days have long gone. You could go down the assembled in Great Britain route of course with Chinese made parts, or you could make the parts in house, this will required shipping tooling and equipment back from the China factory.Retail cost per unit would be the biggest problem assuming Hornby would help, with such small batches the price is going to be considerably higher than a normal run model, most likely around the £500-£600+ mark per model.It's an interesting dream and if someone or a group has deep enough pockets, it could be done. I for one would love to get involved in such a project, although at the moment will my business not doing much and no jobs about money is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Archived This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. Go to topic listing
Eric001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Brightstar said:Hi Eric,That should be rgmichel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hello Brightstar,I don't have his mail address and can't see one in the forum.Not allowed to post contact details of model shops here as it is classed as advertising.Can you, or he, post his mail address or get my address from Adrian.I'll be happy to pass on the contact details.Best regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Eric001 said:Hello Brightstar,I don't have his mail address and can't see one in the forum.Not allowed to post contact details of model shops here as it is classed as advertising.Can you, or he, post his mail address or get my address from Adrian.I'll be happy to pass on the contact details.His e-mail address is in the 4th Posting of this link. He has dis.guised it with extra spacesBest regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightstar Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I was thinking that for shorter models (0-6-0 or 4-4-0 etc.) you could convert a carriage or truck to carry the heater that is now located in the A3 & A4 tenders. It would be easier with an 0-6-0 as it could be close coupled to the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Don't forget that the body shells for live steam are made of special plastic to take the heat and ordinary bodyshell is likely to melt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Brightstar The 0-6-0 tank engine might be just too small but the side tanks would be a good place for the electroics with the SR school engine im trying to keep the cab detail as it would be on full size and not like the hornby one's fill it with red and green lights and relays which i do not like so means redisgning the P.C.B. which will fit i hope above the servo motor along with a new saftey valve. As for the shell this is brass and one of P.D.K model kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I am of course refering to some of the suggested conversions with ordinary plastic bodies. These will probably end up as a melted blob on someones track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 One interesting conversion I have seen recently is a rebuilt W1 class Baltic "Super A4" in live steam using an existing A4 chassis and body, what sort of heat resistant plastic was used to stretch the body and do the extra detailing I am unaware of, but the loco was running successfully at exhibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 PlanesTV "We at the OO Live Steam club have been talking about whether a group of us could start a cottage industry making a batch of locos using our individual skills and expertise; one person do the soldering, one do the machining, one the drilling, one the painting etc.It is even conceivable that with access to Hornby parts and the right quality control over-seeing, Hornby might commission the work. It would make a change to have "Made In Britain" stamped on them and if we did not charge our time I might get my 9F at a competitive price!"I doubt it that would happen there are so many things that would be needed PlanesTV, it's a nice dream but the cost of each model would be out of the reach of most even with volunteer labour. You need a injection moulding expert(not easy to find), access to Hornby's designs and suppliers, new moulds typically at £100,000 each to develope, or moulds not in current production most of which are likely to be in China. Then you need injection moulding machines most likely to be in China, first rate top of the line CAD people to do design work, PR and sales staff, all the supply of spare parts set up, production schedules, a first rate planner and it goes on. All very expensive to do even on a volunteer basis. Then you carn't put Made in Britain on them as most of the parts will be China made, the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe, but I know there are loopholes in that ruling, the best it could be assembled in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Eric001 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,Depends on the approach. You are right if you start from scratch and I agree about the cost of the moulds. The amount of money Hornby must have invested in design, prototype testing and tooling manufacture, for every component, well I can't even begin imagine. Then set up a manufacturing plant, hmmm...Then market the product and sell to make a profit?Manufacturing in Europe? a none starter, too expensive. But Hornby will no longer make this product and the design drawings and tooling must still exist.Adrian might not be so far off if he and a group of enthusiasts could acquire the design drawings and tooling. And if Hornby would sell at a knock down price? After all, they're not worth much to them any more.I've seen so much ex production equipment and tooling scrapped off in the industry I work in. Will this happen to Live Steam?Personaly I don't think it would be too difficult to find a company to make, and design, injection moulds for new types of loco. But, as you suggest, extremely high cost!I've recently acquired a selection of LS spare parts and when you examine these you can see they are of the highest quality, absolutely first class!Feasilble? needs a huge amount of enthusiasm and....hmmm and tons of money.Otherwise, hats off to the designer(s)and Hornby. What an incredible product you have produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Go_West Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,I do see a lot of people that want a new LS engine and cost is not a problem its time and the skill to grab the job by the throat and go for it you may end up with a load of scrap but if you don't start then nothing will be achieved. As said before I have a west country and a schools on the go both are running chassis and the body is one of P.D.K kits and very good they are have just finished a DVD that will send to Hornby about the schools running round my track (just the chassis) forwards and backwards with 2 carriges on. When hornby made the A3 the parts lend them seleves to be made into most types of engine and any 4-6-2 will be no problem what i like is a challenge so a short engine like the schools 4-4-0 is keeping my little grey cells going after these 2 are finished I like an L1 tank which would make a great engine. As the transistion from Flying S to Schools continues I have loged all the changes and one day will see if a Model Mag would run it then any one could have a go.Hornby made a great job of this product but with these new people in westminster chopping away at all things (i see the last train manufacturer in the UK is closing down) hornby my well hang onto there money and spend it on items that will sell better world wide so dont see any LS any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... poliss Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 "the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe,"You believe wrong. It isn't illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 That's good Poliss I know the EU was talking about outlawing Made in Great Britain markings and they did disappear from items made here for a while. Obviously it didn't go through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would like to see more live steam "Gowest" but I think pockets will have to be very deep to buy such a model, brass body kits will be expensive and production of the models if using the special heat resistant plastic will be expensive, well out of reach for the average man in the street in price terms in current times.The biggest problems I have outlined. It's not just the squirting of plastic into a mould.Tons of money would be required to set up a proper tiny production line. Each of those little parts will cost money to produce and will have to be produced in bulk to keep costs down to the minimum. Finding UK maufacturers of the parts will be a problem if you are going down the Made in Great Britain route as a lot of the old UK parts makers the likes of Hornby and Tri-ang used in the made in Great Britain days have long gone. You could go down the assembled in Great Britain route of course with Chinese made parts, or you could make the parts in house, this will required shipping tooling and equipment back from the China factory.Retail cost per unit would be the biggest problem assuming Hornby would help, with such small batches the price is going to be considerably higher than a normal run model, most likely around the £500-£600+ mark per model.It's an interesting dream and if someone or a group has deep enough pockets, it could be done. I for one would love to get involved in such a project, although at the moment will my business not doing much and no jobs about money is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 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The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I am of course refering to some of the suggested conversions with ordinary plastic bodies. These will probably end up as a melted blob on someones track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 One interesting conversion I have seen recently is a rebuilt W1 class Baltic "Super A4" in live steam using an existing A4 chassis and body, what sort of heat resistant plastic was used to stretch the body and do the extra detailing I am unaware of, but the loco was running successfully at exhibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 PlanesTV "We at the OO Live Steam club have been talking about whether a group of us could start a cottage industry making a batch of locos using our individual skills and expertise; one person do the soldering, one do the machining, one the drilling, one the painting etc.It is even conceivable that with access to Hornby parts and the right quality control over-seeing, Hornby might commission the work. It would make a change to have "Made In Britain" stamped on them and if we did not charge our time I might get my 9F at a competitive price!"I doubt it that would happen there are so many things that would be needed PlanesTV, it's a nice dream but the cost of each model would be out of the reach of most even with volunteer labour. You need a injection moulding expert(not easy to find), access to Hornby's designs and suppliers, new moulds typically at £100,000 each to develope, or moulds not in current production most of which are likely to be in China. Then you need injection moulding machines most likely to be in China, first rate top of the line CAD people to do design work, PR and sales staff, all the supply of spare parts set up, production schedules, a first rate planner and it goes on. All very expensive to do even on a volunteer basis. Then you carn't put Made in Britain on them as most of the parts will be China made, the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe, but I know there are loopholes in that ruling, the best it could be assembled in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric001 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,Depends on the approach. You are right if you start from scratch and I agree about the cost of the moulds. The amount of money Hornby must have invested in design, prototype testing and tooling manufacture, for every component, well I can't even begin imagine. Then set up a manufacturing plant, hmmm...Then market the product and sell to make a profit?Manufacturing in Europe? a none starter, too expensive. But Hornby will no longer make this product and the design drawings and tooling must still exist.Adrian might not be so far off if he and a group of enthusiasts could acquire the design drawings and tooling. And if Hornby would sell at a knock down price? After all, they're not worth much to them any more.I've seen so much ex production equipment and tooling scrapped off in the industry I work in. Will this happen to Live Steam?Personaly I don't think it would be too difficult to find a company to make, and design, injection moulds for new types of loco. But, as you suggest, extremely high cost!I've recently acquired a selection of LS spare parts and when you examine these you can see they are of the highest quality, absolutely first class!Feasilble? needs a huge amount of enthusiasm and....hmmm and tons of money.Otherwise, hats off to the designer(s)and Hornby. What an incredible product you have produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go_West Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Hello tsot,I do see a lot of people that want a new LS engine and cost is not a problem its time and the skill to grab the job by the throat and go for it you may end up with a load of scrap but if you don't start then nothing will be achieved. As said before I have a west country and a schools on the go both are running chassis and the body is one of P.D.K kits and very good they are have just finished a DVD that will send to Hornby about the schools running round my track (just the chassis) forwards and backwards with 2 carriges on. When hornby made the A3 the parts lend them seleves to be made into most types of engine and any 4-6-2 will be no problem what i like is a challenge so a short engine like the schools 4-4-0 is keeping my little grey cells going after these 2 are finished I like an L1 tank which would make a great engine. As the transistion from Flying S to Schools continues I have loged all the changes and one day will see if a Model Mag would run it then any one could have a go.Hornby made a great job of this product but with these new people in westminster chopping away at all things (i see the last train manufacturer in the UK is closing down) hornby my well hang onto there money and spend it on items that will sell better world wide so dont see any LS any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poliss Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 "the EU wouldn't wear made in Britain or Made in Great Britian it's illegal under EU law I believe,"You believe wrong. It isn't illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 That's good Poliss I know the EU was talking about outlawing Made in Great Britain markings and they did disappear from items made here for a while. Obviously it didn't go through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I would like to see more live steam "Gowest" but I think pockets will have to be very deep to buy such a model, brass body kits will be expensive and production of the models if using the special heat resistant plastic will be expensive, well out of reach for the average man in the street in price terms in current times.The biggest problems I have outlined. It's not just the squirting of plastic into a mould.Tons of money would be required to set up a proper tiny production line. Each of those little parts will cost money to produce and will have to be produced in bulk to keep costs down to the minimum. Finding UK maufacturers of the parts will be a problem if you are going down the Made in Great Britain route as a lot of the old UK parts makers the likes of Hornby and Tri-ang used in the made in Great Britain days have long gone. You could go down the assembled in Great Britain route of course with Chinese made parts, or you could make the parts in house, this will required shipping tooling and equipment back from the China factory.Retail cost per unit would be the biggest problem assuming Hornby would help, with such small batches the price is going to be considerably higher than a normal run model, most likely around the £500-£600+ mark per model.It's an interesting dream and if someone or a group has deep enough pockets, it could be done. I for one would love to get involved in such a project, although at the moment will my business not doing much and no jobs about money is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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