Help with connecting LED signal to HM6010

[mrman29]

problems connecting Berko LED signals to HM6010. From diagram I have connected the RED lead from the signal to A(+) GREEN to C (common) White lead with resistor to B (-) I have set channel to SIGNAL. If I press the GREEN button on the APP screen the Green light comes on. If I press the RED button on the APP screen nothing happens. Any suggestions as to why this is happening gratefully received

[96RAF]

Your problem is the HM6010 C connection is common but it is positive relative to the other two switched negative terminals.

These are both negative not + and - and your documentation and module should be marked A C B as shown in this picture. Note that Hornby signals use a different (illogical) colour code and your wires would be A red, C white and B green but see further information below.

As your signal is common negative I do not think they are suitable for use with HM6010. I would contact the manufacturer and ask if they have a common anode version. http://onlinemodelsltd.co.uk/contact/

If you built the signal yourself you may be able to reassemble it with the leds reversed to make the anodes common with the resistor and the cathode legs available for switching.

These instructions clearly show the signal built as common cathode (negative). http://onlinemodelsltd.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Eckon-instructions.pdf

Note that the site linked to only provides instructions and videos for Eckon signals and it is assumed Berko signals will be similarly built as common cathode.

[Chrissaf]

Just to reiterate something Rob has stated but with more emphasis.

You need to purchase or make or modify your signals to be common positive [common anode]. The common negative [common cathode] signal type will not work with DCC type Accessory Decoders [the HM6010 is loosely based on DCC Accessory decoder designs] as these are near universally built as common positive.

Many other manufacturers of commercial signals produce both common anode and common cathode versions, so it is important to select the correct type when ordering.

I designed and built a transistor common cathode to common anode inverter that allows common cathode dual aspect signals to be used with a common anode controller. The design is reproduced below.

[mrman29]

Thank you both for such clear explanation of why I have this problem. I now know what sort of signal I need if I go down the LED pathway on the HM6010. I do not think I am up to making the conversion circuit so I will continue to use the few Berko LED signals I have which I am using successfully with the manual lever on-on system. on other less often used parts of my layout and source the correct type for the main circuits and terminals.

[Flashbang]

Another option and using ready built items, is to connect a relay board to the C and one of the two other connections on the HM6010 and then via the relays contacts change the signals two aspects. No wiring alterations are then needed at all. A suitable 12 volt DC ideally regulated power supply would be required to feed all your colour light signals and possibly any LED layout lighting in buildings or street lamps etc too.

A ready made relay board could be for example the Brimal MR221 unit https://www.bclstore.co.uk/product-page/dual-changeover-relay-card-2-amp-at-12v-dc

I have no connection with Brimal other than suggesting a product.

Edit to add drawing...

[96RAF]

The problem is when you set a 6010 as a signal the controls given are red off green, so the suggested relay solution will have one lamp on when off is selected and the other on when red is selected. No further reaction when green is selected obviously as there is no connection, the lamp connected to the de-energised relay contact will stay on. No big deal but it may be irritating to some.

[Flashbang]

I don't really understand the last post?

When the slider is at Red the relay is de energised and the red signal aspect is displayed.

When the slider is moved to Green the relay energises and the green aspect is displayed!

[96RAF]

It is assumed that the relay is energised when the red aspect is selected. Power goes C (positive) through relay coil to + (which is actually labelled A). This lights the red aspect.

When off is selected relay is de-energised and green aspect will light.

Because - (actually B) is not connected, when green aspect is selected the relay remains de-energised and green stays lit.

At 6010 module © is positive and both + (A) and - (B) are switched negatives, hence relay will energise when wired as shown and red is selected and de-energise when off or green are selected.

[Flashbang]

I had to guess which output A or B is On when the Green is selected. The wording I placed in the drawing reflects this., So move wire shown in + (A) to the - (B) retaining the common positive in ©. Then when there is no connection to negative on B the relay is not energised and red aspect shows. When B is connected to negative the relay energises and a green aspect is displayed

Its simply moving of one wire A to B.

The HM6010 uses zero volt switching exactly the same as any DCC decoder. :-)

[96RAF]

A word of caution when selecting a suitable relay make sure the coil is capable of 12 volts as the potential on C of the 6010 module is 12-14v. Some relay modules are 5v as they are designed to work with Arduino or Ras-Pi boards. Most relay specs openly talk to the main contact ratings with the coil rating hidden in the blurb.

This article, which may be of interest to some folk, tells of bench testing I did with various relay modules in attempt to get them to work with the R8247 accessory decoder, however the context reads across to the HM6010 module . . . http://www.halton96th.org.uk/relay-module.html

[Chrissaf]

Rob's caution regarding 5 volt relay coils on commercially advertised relay boards is particulary relevant in this scenario as there will be long periods where the relay is being continuously energised. The 5 volt coils is slightly less of an issue when the relay boards are being used to operate solenoid points as the relays are being pulsed, but I would still not recommend them and search for relay board products with proper 12 volt relay coils.

[Flashbang]

TBH I would not even recommend 5v relays to be used with solenoid point motors! Even with a pulse its still above the rated coil voltage, also many of these 5v boards use LED Opto couplers designed to work on 5 volts from an Arduino etc. output. So avoid.

The link I provided many posts back, is to a relay board designed for 12 volt operation so will work happily with the HM6010 output. smiley