60's Set mix

[Trevor-347513]

Hello - as a total newbie - Is it possible to mix a oo set from the 60's with new sets and what power and controller is needed?

Not sure if it's something that can be done

[Rog RJ]

Shouldn't be any problem. Your existing controller may or may not be suitable if you are running dc (analogue)

[ntpntpntp]

What old set have you got? Is it a 2-rail or 3-rail set?

Up to a point yes you can mix the 2-rail models. 00 is still a nominal 12V DC system so the power requirements are the same although old motors draw a bit more current.

The tension-lock coupling has evolved but should still couple together.

The main problem is the depth of flanges on the old models which were designed for much taller rails, the wheels may ground and bounce along on the chairs of certain modern finer scale trackwork so you have to be sure the track you're using is compatible. There are different "codes" of rail, the smaller the number the finer the rail.

I'm sure someone will reply with more knowledge of which track is suitable.

[atom3624]

Careful mixing old with new.

The obvious is to keep 2-rail with 2-rail, 3 with 3.

Another is the flange depths - old had much deeper and broader wheel flanges, so new can probably run on old track, but old cannot run on new, finer scale track.

Another would be if running analogue, to take care with the power supply - old motors required more 'juice', so you could over-power the new-model motors if not careful - whilst enjoying that Mallard really can do 126mph !!

Al.

[Rana Temporia]

I run very old models (50s and 60s) next to comparatively modern ones with no problem, I just make sure that I use suitable track and most modern Hornby track is fine, you may have some problems with the current points and crossings. Some photos of the stock would let us know what it is you have and the suitability.

Hornby Dublo used finer track standards than Tri-ang, Trix had a mix, Grafar were a bit mixed as were Playcraft. I don’t have any problem with using older controllers with more modern locos, but the other way round will cause problems as many modern controllers can’t supply the current that the old motors need.

[threelink]

Mixing old and new can be problematic. Two rail and 3 rail cannot be mixed and as mentioned by others points to be wary of include wheel and track standards and transformer/controller issues ( older motors require more oomph than modern transformer/controllers can deliver).

Having said that, my general experience is that the later Triang/Hornby models and some earlier Triang models will run very happily on code 100 track. The earlier Triang models with over-deep flanges and wide tyres can be re-wheeled. I have some running on code 75 track. Power issues can be addressed by the use of suitable transformer/controllers. I use old Triang controllers thoroughly checked for electrical safety but modern equivalents are available. Do not be tempted to plug in an old transformer/controller without getting it checked first by a competent electrician.

Couplings can be an issue. Older Hornby stock is fitted with the Simplex coupling (a bit like an overscal buck eye coupler) which is incompatible with the later tension lock (the one with a hook and crossbar). This can be circumvented by running the different types in fixed rakes with a converter vehicle at either end i.e. a carriage or wagon with a Simplex at one end and a tension lock at the other. Such were made by Triang/Hornby and sometimes turn up at train fairs. It's not difficult to make your own.

My experience has been very positive and there is no reason why most older models cannot be run or made to run on modern track. The big advantage of older models is their robust build and longevity. Many of my locos are 60 years old. With proper maintenance (i.e. a drop of oil every now and then and replacement brushes from time to time) they will outlast me. They can be made to run quietly and at a crawl. With little effort they can be detailed up to give modern models a run for their money in the appearances stakes - from normal viewing distance it is difficult to spot the difference between an detailed oldie and its modern equivalent.

I would say have a go and see what happens - what's to lose?

[Going Spare]

One other point to bear in mind, which I don't think anyone above has mentioned is the radius of curved track. In the 60s, radius 1 (15") track was the norm in sets (some even tighter) although radius 2 (17.5") curves were also available, and the loco's and rolling stock were engineered to cope with that radius.

You will see that only a small number of Hornby's current loco's are said to be compatible with radius 1, the suggested general minimum being radius 2 particularly for main-line express steam loco's & large diesels) and most sets are nowadays supplied with radius 3 (the lower the number, the tighter the curve).

[threelink]

@GS Good point well made.

[Rana Temporia]

The other thing with track.. if the track with these older models is Tri-ang standard, series 3 or super 4 it won’t connect to modern tack and even if it’s the first version of system 6 the bin will be the best place for it. If it’s Playcraft it could be 12.75” radius which very few modern locos will run on but it connects very well to modern track.

[Buz]

Hi trevor347513

I have quite a mixture of trains from the 1960's right through to today's models and all run on the same DC layout without much in the way of problems.

With the rolling stock there won't be much of an issuie some wheels may need replacing due to wear plenty of modern wheels of the correct sizes available that will fit 1960's Triang and Triang-Hornby pin point bearings.

If you look for them you can even get modern wheels and spring clips for Hornby Dublo trains then you will need a converter wagon due to the different couplings.

Locomotives however will need a good service and may need wheels changed anything diesel or electric that has the knurled wheels will need to have those changed as a matter of course.

Even though the 60's and modern analogue are both DC some of them won't run well on the older or more modern transformer controllers as the case may be.

This however is quite easy to overcome you need a good quality 1960's transformer controller (Get It Safety Checked by a Qualified Electrician) and a good quality modern transformer controller.

(NOT the ones that come in a train set they are not very good and brand makes no difference to that)

You also need an Atlas (a USA model railway company) selector switch, you then wire the 60's and modern analogue controllers through the selector switch as you would for cab control.

Cab Control is a method for wiring up DC layouts with multiple controllers usually with multiple Block sections that allowed more than one operator to operate trains through the different Block sections.

When done correctly you will be able to easily select the 60's or modern as the appropriate controller to operate the train in use, and if you go more complex which block section is which controller.

It sounds complicated but I can assure you it is not, just make sure you get the common return track feed wiring bit right and all will be OK.

regards John

[Trevor-347513]

Thank you all for the replies some great advice and lots to think about.

I'll give it a go and see how I get on

Thanks again