Driver's position

[Graskie]

Look, Fishy. You would probably drive locos upside down and clinging to any old track down there. And is our right your left and vice versa?

No advantage for TTS over Loksound, I'm afraid. Made by Germans.

[PJ_model_trains]

If you get fed up with this conversation Graskie, you can always take the DoG for a walk, well maybe for a run.

Hope that makes sense  ;-)

[PJ_model_trains]

And here we have Fishy gritting his teeth, or was it grit in his teeth?

So here is an advantage of TTS over Loksound Gaskie/Fishy. Look how many egg and bacon breakfasts you can have with the money you saved. 

I think life would have been much easier if God made women with TTS sound. Two channels would be more than enough.

Back to my trains one of em is coming right now ;o)

[PJ_model_trains]

Careful Graskie,    'clinging to any old track down there'    Fishy will be singing next and Waltzing with Matilda!

[LCDR]

I am sure this topic was aired a few years ago but my knowledge of this subject is that before 1923 there was considerable variation, with railways like the Great Western, Midland, SE&CR and NER using right hand drive and many others using left hand drive. However following the grouping new locomotives were introduced with left hand drive, except for the Great Western, who stuck with right hand. However there were exceptions when the Maunsell N class was built all but the last ten had right hand drive. This also gives model manufacturers a bit of a headache with classes like the Midland / LMS 4F 0-6-0 which was virtually identical pre- and post - grouping EXCEPT for the driving position. Therefore Hornby's 4F is a LMS one with left hand drive and Bachmann's is the Midland variety therefore a totally different machine! But you need to look hard to tell.

The side the driver stands does affect how he sights signals. With smaller boilers this is not a huge problem, and also the fireman needed to participate in watching the signals. As signals changed from semaphore to colour light, boilers got bigger and train speeds increased the driving position became more of an issue. The GW having ATC did mitigate the problem somewhat but the others (apart from the LTSR section of the LMSR) relied solely on the driver seeing the distant, and then reacting correctly before he got to the home signal.

Modern traction resolves much of these difficulties with the driver perched squarely at the very front with a clear view ahead.

[LCDR]

Now some of you may ask what ATC is. It consisted of a ramp in the track and a plunger under the cab which passed along the the ramp. By pushing the plunger up it operated a valve sounding a horn which if not acknowledged by a driver would apply the brake. However if the distant signal was clear the valve would automatically re-close and a bell sounded. When the driver acnowledged the horn a device in the cab would display a 'sunflower' indicator showing that the signal had been acknowledged. This was OK for speeds up to about 90mph, but it became unreliable as trains became faster, so a new system which used a magnetic inductor replaced it. The magnetic system was first used by the LMS on the London Tilbury and Southend section, but that did not automatically apply the brake, but simply sounded a reminder to the driuver. BR combined the best features of the different systems and today AWS (Automatic Warning System) is fitted to every distant signal and every oither signal capable of displaying a yellow aspect.

[LCDR]

Most steam locomotives regulators are double sided to facilitate shunting and tender first running. However running tender first is awkward and more hazardous for a whole host of reasons and the railways imposed a severe speed restriction on tender locos running backwards. Tank engines were usually designed to be driven normally in either direction but whenever possible drivers turned their loco to run chimney first whenever they could. It was much less uncomfortable. There were always turn tables at loco sheds and larger stations.

The height of the tender was a significant factor too. Old 0-6-0s with low sided tenders were better to run in reverse than big Pacifics!

Bear a thought however for the crew of a 'Pull and Push' train. When propelling the coaches the driver was sat in the cab at the front and the poor old fireman was still on the footplate on his Jack Jones. More modern push-pull used air or vacuum driven controls for the regulator, but older systems actually needed the fireman to react to telegraph messages from the driver! The driver of course had absolute control over the brakes.

[LCDR]

Sorry I did't respond earlier but I had a Grand-daughter's wedding in Nottingham on Saturday and a Christening of two of my other grand - kids in Harrogate on Sunday, so family responsibilities have been the priority this weekend.

Next weekend I am off to Wales for a day out on the Ffestiniog, whoopee!

[VESPA]

LC&DR I hope the weather gets a bit better just as the crystal ball readers at the met office say. You will have a super time at the Ffestiniog  and if you get a chance come back through Llangollen and have a look at the Llangollen Railway. Great drive from Porthmadog or Blaeneau Ffestiniog or if you are going from Caernarfon on the Wesh Highland Railway. Some of the most beautiful countryside in the UK. You probably won't have time but the Llandudno Tramway is also worth a look. North Wales is a fabulous place to visit and most of the inhabitants of this land have never been,just like the Highlands of Scotland. Have a great weekend!

[PJ_model_trains]

Excellent LC&DR and if I may say, well worth waiting for.

Everything from ATC  to AWS, Train Driver to Fireman and more.

Many thanks, I hope you had an excellent time last weekend and that the weather is kind to you this coming weekend.

Enjoy  ;-)

PJ

[81F]

Yes the Oxfordshire Ironstone Railway from Wroxton to Banbury! According to the Ivo Peters Industrial Railway video.

[Graskie]

Great stuff! Thanks for that, 81F. Looked like standard gauge to me as well, looking at the wagons, but I have been known to be wrong once before. The film doesn't show any signals, though. I wonder which side they, if any, would have been on?

[81F]

Eventhough the GWR locos were driven from the right (see http://www.railwaywondersoftheworld.com/wpimages/wpeb14471f_05_06.jpg) the signals were on the left (see Moreton on Lugg http://goo.gl/maps/kRhh9 and http://goo.gl/maps/KHMny which show the backs of the signals) and the front here at kingham http://www.alcazarvideo.co.uk/163-5038-Kingham-Sep2962.JPG.

 

Hope this helps

 

Steve 

[Postman Prat]

Hi 81F

Thanks for that - I didn't know that. Seems like a very strange arrangement to to me, but then with the GWR anything's possible!!

 

[81F]

Another GWR oddity was, when they quadroupled the mainline from Paddington to Didcot, the four lines were (and still are) operated as two parallel double track lines (i.e. the two slow lines on the northern side of the formation and the the two fast lines on the south) rather than the slow lines being either side of the fast lines).

[LCDR]

The Ffestiniog Railway although single for most of its route usually passes on the right at station loops.

Nowadays with extensive bi-directional signalling it is not unusual to run on either line when approaching or leaving a station. An example of this at two locations near me where this can occur are Skelton Junction to York, and Low Fell to Newcastle Central.

In the olden days the London and Greenwich Railway ran on the right hand, and the parallel London and Croydon ran on the left. They shared the viaduct between New Cross and London Bridge and indeed shared the down line. The up lines were located at the outer sides. Today many more lines have been provided on an extended viaduct but there is now a proportion of bi-directional running from Borough Market Junction to North Kent East.

[Graskie]

Actually I've never tried the driver's position. Too late for me now, even if I knew what it was.

[Fishmanoz]

Sad Graskie, very sad. You know there is medication out there to help?  May even find an email about it in your Junk folder later today. And you can probably even find a real live demo by video on the net, including in the driver's cab. Just make sure you can reach the controls and see the signalling, wouldn't want to crash first time out. 

[VESPA]

I can confirm that COTN was left hand drive with double regulator handles.

[Teedoubleudee]

Thanks 81F,

I actually did a bit of web images research myself yesterday and noticed that almost all GWR signals were indeed on the left though a couple did appear to be on the right. Think I'll stick to the left for my layout, luckily I haven't drilled the 14mm holes for the Dapols yet!