Building a B12

[Go_West]

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Having done some steam testing on the rolling road and track with out the body on it was time to try it with the body and see if it would run ok or come up with a problem or two.Here you see it on the rolling road in steam and sad to say things did not go well.The engine ran poorly and was very lumpy in action with the wheels not turning evenly but stopping and starting. An investigation was under way to find out why things had taken a backward step.

One problem was the electric motor only worked when the engine was cool as things got hot it became unreliable was this the electronics over heating or the motor? It looked like the motor was faulty so it was changed for a better one and the printed board with the electronics on was sealed to keep out the damp. The main steam pipe running from under the cab to the supper heater was lagged in an effort to reduce the heat radiating into the motor/electronics area.

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An additional problems were the reed switch never opened as it was too close to the magnet so a new printed board with the switch mounted to one side solved this problem.

Next was the valve timing, this jumped out of timing and was due to poor tooth contact in the valve timing gear area which needed adjusting.If all that wasn’t enough the regulator never shut the steam off properly which happens on the A4 and A3 engines some time so the two surfaces were lapped in to stop this happening.

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You might just be able to see the two ports in this picture, the plain hole is the whistle and the tear drop looking one is the regulator port.A mate on mine years ago was a steam apprentices at Stratford and one of the jobs he got was to remove the scratches and marks from the port face of an engines regulator valve.

By adding engineers blue finding the high spots and low spots and then scraping away the metal would make the two parts a gas tight fit.After spending hours at this job he called the foreman over to view his work and the foreman looked at what my friend had achieved picked up the scraping tool and dragged it across the port face leaving a deep scratch and said “do it again” oh how we miss people like that.

Testing again the engine on compressed air then steam tests on the rolling road show that these new changes were coming together and after many hours of head scratching thing were moving forward once again this was still with the body off but running with its tender but not on the track.

I hope this is not getting too detailed but might explain the longer gaps in the building work.and that things do not always go right first time.

As I have said before the oil filling system had not been finalized and I was still taking the oil tank front cover off to add oil.But then that little light bulb in my head switched on no its not burnt out yet !

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Why not make a new front cover and fit the oil filler valve in that and gain access via the smoke box door. If this was like full size and mounted on hinges it could be opened and the oil injected into the tank you see it here with the door removed.

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You can see clearly in this picture the oil being injected I have used this idea many times before on other engines and its great as you can do a refill with the engine still in steam so a quick stop and open the door inject the oil close the door and off you go again.

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After some fine adjustments to the valve timing the test runs went well and once more the engine went round the track with its new tender now I need to test it with the body and hope it runs just as good.

 

[96RAF]

Great Ken

 

I was getting withdrawal symptoms waiting for the next episode.

 

Only  frustrating little things at the time but satisfying now they are fixed.

 

If you want some more rollers for the rolling road ready for when you do your 2-10-0 I have some spares that I can send to you.

 

Rob

[Go_West]

Thanks for the offer Rob but a 2-10-0 sounds good but a lot of wheels which engine had you in mind. I did Evening Star and had problems getting all them wheels round the track so not sure about even more wheels.

did read up on Hornbys B12 which they speak about  in the engine shed and it took them 3 years to come up with the final model design

so I must be doing well with my engine or was that working on other things as well at the same time maybe.

Ken

[96RAF]

Offer still stands on the extra rollers Ken, just need an address or I can use the 'B&B' one.

Due to an supplier error I got lots and was told to keep them.

[Go_West]

Hi Rob

if you have a couple going begging by all means use the b&b one that will fine

ken

[96RAF]

No problem Ken i'll post them when I get back to UK end of next week.

Rob

[96RAF]

I wonder if this thread has set any records on the Hornby forum (Adam?), only 26 pages in the thread, but look at the other stats - 250 replies and over 17,000 views...

Come on Ken hang the story out a bit for 20,000 views and 300 replies.

Better than that I think we are all looking forward to seeing the S69 fully painted and steaming around the track in all its glory.

Maybe then Hornby will sit up and take notice.

Rob

[Go_West]

Hi Rob

yes there does seem to be some interest in the thread and as you say Adam must have the info for this within the forum logs.

Hornby could make a one off engine of limited production run and as prices seem to be on the way up it could be a good project.

i think that is alway the problem the cost and projected sales. But what is obvious that these parts can be built into other engines with little if any new parts.

As for the S69 still making changes which when complete should make it a bit better build. Will let you know when the work has been completed.

Ken 

[walkingthedog]

I think without any doubt this is the best thread there has been on this forum for years.

 

It is real railway modelling and isn't scattered with odd comments and daft questions. Keep it up it mesmerises me. I hope you have another in the pipeline when this one is completed. 

[96RAF]

I think your idea of a one off special edition live steamer may be a way of keeping the brand alive Ken.

 

Cost will be a bit silly as expected but in a fancy case with a limited number certificate it will seem better value.

 

I'm sure you must have a good idea of material costs and associated manhours to pull together a rough order of magnitude of price for such a project.

 

We have enough skill sets on here to help you with bank managers, financial wizards and all.

 

PS - I'll get your rolling road bits in the post asap. You'll need your engineering skills to install them, fiddly *#^ing things.

 

Rob

[Go_West]

Hi rob

Thanks for the that hope they fit ok ? Sound like it's not straight forward but that's engineering some designs are well thought out other are not so good as I build this engine S69 I keep thinking of service ability as like most things there come a time when an overhaul will be  required and I want to make things easy for me.  today some nickel sheet turn up so hope to make some new frames as the one on the engine have loads of holes mainly in the wrong places due to changes and mods. No doubt Rob will be formiluar with mod record labels as my others the was a small label that records the changes to a unit and would have numbers 1 to 99 and each number would be crossed through as mods were done i say all this as mod 100 on a particular unit was "add new mod label" 

as the oil tank has its valve fitted and test show it to work well I need to add some hinges to the smoke box door which is going to be a job no doubt

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I have just filed off the ones cast in the door so will remake them out of brass with a long pin for the door to swing on.

[Go_West]

Looking at the picture not sure if the dart handles are over scale? Might need to remake them and speaking of these must find away to keep the door shut like a little chip may be.

[walkingthedog]

Some model locos use a magnet to hold the door shut. 

[Go_West]

Wtd

what a great idea must see what I can do

[walkingthedog]

Steady on Gowest I'll be buying a lathe next  😆

[Go_West]

wtd

why not buy a lathe there's no end to things you can do with it 

[walkingthedog]

If only I had the room. I built a coffee table from mild steel complete with metal scrolls for GCE Metalwork. Quite a lot of lathe work involved. 

[RDS]

I wonder if this thread has set any records on the Hornby forum (Adam?), only 26 pages in the thread, but look at the other stats - 250 replies and over 17,000 views..

 

Sorry Rob, long way to go.  'Desirable Features' has 57 pages, 560 replies and over 46,000 views

[walkingthedog]

Fair point but Desirable Features is just a huge wishlist that can be added to for ever, whereas this is an incredible story of some incredible engineering with a final outcome.

 

Also take a look at Latest Acquisitions 190 pages, 1898 replies and over 132,000 views, but it's not a competition. 

[RDS]

I agree WTD and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the B12 thread.

[walkingthedog]

It is incredible, I just wish I had the space for a proper workshop with a lathe and milling machine to name but two. 

[96RAF]

Ken

My daughter uses small cylindrical magnets in jewellery making and they even have a hole drilled through the centre.

I use them to trigger reed switches.

Glue one to the door to mate with a bit of steel inside (or tother way round)  and the hinges can be false as it will go on like a pan lid.

I'll blag a couple from her and pop them in with the rollers. I'll also put some tips in for installing the rollers as it is a fiddle.

Rob

[Go_West]

Rob thanks for the magnet offer but on reflection might be a problem which will need testing out before i say any more as to the thread glad others find it interesting.

As for the engine it is getting some small problems which are showing up and tend to make for redesign and remaking of old parts that show they are not made to the highest standard as i will explain.

looking at the complete model improvements were needed as it was looking like an R & D job with parts like the frames which had loads of hole drilled that were no longer needed as changes were carried out so new frames can now be made to make it look better .For one thing the frames in the kit are too short and had to have a section added at the front to fix the cylinder block to as the kit was never intended to be a real steam engine.

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Now new frames were cut from nickel sheet and only the holes relative to the final design were drill in the new frames. You can see from the picture here the old frames from the kit with the front part made in brass sheet and the new one with less holes and the square cut out for the cylinder block and made also in one piece.The brass block in the centre was unsoldered from the old frames and re soldered in the same position on the new frames this block is the mounting point for the small bevel gear assembly. 

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With the left hand side of the frames removed you can see more clearly the layout of the various component and how they fit in the frames, like a jig saw puzzle making a more compact unit.

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The springs etched in the old frames were cut off and re soldered to the small lugs hanging from the bottom of the frames as in this picture so making a much nicer job.

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With the new frames fitted in place the engine looked better and also did away with a problem I had with the 4 outside main drivers not making good contact with the rails and giving a rocking motion from corner to corner. You can also see the lagged steam pipe in this picture also a mod to help keep the heat down in this area.

[96RAF]

Brilliant - R&D moving into Design Incorporation for the Production Phase.

Rob

[walkingthedog]

I suppose you can only drill so many holes in the frames before they become more holes than frame.