Hornby Garden Railway

[david_wakefield]

Hi All 

I am planning to build a railway in the garden but am clueless on how to begin.

Here are my thoughts so far.

1 It needs to be 00 gauge.

2 I would like to run live steam (if I can get hold of a set) on a dedicated line.

3 DCC control, railmaster eventually. Expect live steam.

4 I think I would like the track bed to be around 2 foot above ground as we get a lot of cats in the garden and I can see the permanent way being a litter tray!

Any advice would be great.

Dave 

 

 

[2e0dtoeric]

Live steam - you will be lucky! Hornby haven't made any live steam for a long time, and spares are like hen's teeth!

There are a very few small businesses making live steam models, but you are looking at around £1000 for each engine!

Live steam and DCC? No chance! You need a special controller for live steam, and DCC isn't the one.

If you hunt around, there is a thread on garden railways, in here, but you'll need to go back a couple of months to find it.

Cats can be a problem, but not in the way you fear, they are more likely to play with the trains, and 'kill' them as they trundle round the track!

 

Your biggest problem, using OO, is debris dropping onto the track. a tiny twig - to your eye - is a tree-trunk to an OO loco. You've seen all the jokes about leaves on the line affecting full-size trains!

Make VERY VERY sure that there is NO mains electric outside. Keep the transformer inside, and only have 12v outside. Leave nothing outside if it is going to rain, it doesn't take much water to ruin a controller or engine. Don't be too ambitious, because you think you have loads of space - you will find that the track gets dirty very quickly, and electrical joints (fishplates etc) soon stop passing volts. Consider running a BUS round the track, and dropper wires for each track piece. Make all your wire joints waterproof!

 

And that is not considering the difficulty of keeping the track flat! Wet wood warps, creating leaning or bumpy track. I am presuming you are in the UK, so you know what the weather can be like! 

I think there is a garden railway magazine, or maybe a forum, you could find, and do a lot more research before you spend any real money on anything.

 

Reading your item 3 again - 3 DCC control, railmaster eventually. Expect live steam.

Did you mean except - ie having two independent tracks, one for DCC and one for live steam? You will find that steam loco's tend to spit oil everywhere, and it would mist onto the DCC track if it is anywhere near, leading to all kinds of trouble! See the DCC comments about cleanliness, or lack of, causing problems!

[david_wakefield]

Hi, Thanks for your in depth reply.

It was my intention to run live steam on its own dedicated track circuit and dcc on its own circuit. Great point regarding misting steam oil, I hadn't considered that. Regards the Cats I would run my sound locos so a blast of the horn/whistle might deter them. I use the term blast loosely of course 

I take your point on electrics, all control gear will be in side the house.

Many thanks 

Dave 

[mjb1961]

Hi David,,,hornby do not make live steam anymore but you can get them from eBay ,like me ,in fact I'm expecting a delivery today of the flying Scotsman ,the complete set ,track ,controllers the lot ,I've also got the mallard set so they are available,expect to pay @£400 ,don't pay anymore than that unless you want to ,there are a few on eBay now so take a look ,also check out th oolivesteam.co.uk forum the guys on there are dedicated HORNBY live steam enthusiasts ,,,,also some of the clever guys on there are also converting there live steam to DCC ,but only in the control sense ,it will still run on steam but controlled via a decoder ,,also yes have two lines running parallel with each other ,live steam and dcc ,sounds great ,,the only draw back with garden railways is our lovely British weather but don't let that put you off ,,,also take a look on you tube for HORNBY live steam ,also on the live steam forum there are a couple of videos for you to watch ,,,,look forward to future updates ,,,,,,martin

[mjb1961]

David ,the live steam forum is,,,,,,,,,oolivesteam.com,,,,,,,,,not .co.uk.    

Also ,,,HORNBY are still servicing live steam for around £25 ,

Also ,,spares are available from the oolivesteam.com forum ,not all but some and these guys would service / check over your loco if you attended one of there shows/ exhibitions,,

Also you could do with a rolling road to test your loco on and I must warn you that controling these beasts is a bit tricky,but good fun 

[david_wakefield]

Thanks mjb1961

All sounds good to me. I have the Hornby rolling road, I use it for running in ect. I have had a look on you tube as you suggested. That's torn it! From I would like to MUST HAVE in one fell swoop. They do look fun once mastered control. It's comforting to know that some level of service is still available for the live steam locomotives.

Now I have a clearer idea of how to proceed it looks like a railway planning weekend ahead. But I had better cut the grass first just to keep the Shedmaster happy.

Dave 

[mjb1961]

Please come back and let us know your progress ,also I meant to say earlier,on the oolivesteam.com forum there are occasionaly live steam sets for sale so do have a look ,,,,,

[david_wakefield]

Thanks Martin 

I will keep you posted. I intend to keep a pictorial diary of the project. Thanks for your advice.

Dave

[david_wakefield]

Just a quick update. I have just won an auction for a live steam Dwight D Eisenhower set. So it's all systems go for full planning mode this weekend.

Best anti aging cure going. From 61 to a kid again in one fell swoop.

Cheers 

Dave 

[mjb1961]

Hi David ,,,,Very nice ,I had my my newly acquired Flying Scotsman on the rolling road yesterday ,it really does give you buzz when you get it running ,tried my mallard out after and she run sweet ,,,,,enjoy your new toy,,,,martin

[LCDR]

  Garden railways can be fun. And hard work too. There are some major obstacles. Here are a few observations although I use coarse scale O gauge 3 rail using OO will undoubtedly bring similar challenges.

 

Electrical continuity of the track is essential, and soldering a busbar to it or jumpers across track joints will be a very tricky task. If you use an electric soldering iron, (and I found out that I needed to do this to get enough oomph to get solder to flow), will usually require taking mains outdoors. I have recently bought a butaine fired soldering iron to try and avoid this hazard.    Up to now I have found progress slow waiting for bone dry days when there is no damp on the grass and the moisture has disappeared from anywhere near the track.

 

Leaves on the line becomes a real issue. Before every running session you need to inspect the track, remove obstructions and also clean the rails. It takes a lot of track rubbers, merely wiping with cloth soaked with IPA is NOT enough!  DCC I believe is very sensitive to track cleaning, but as I use up to 24 V DC analogue I cannot comment further.

Here is my line on a nice day!

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Darsted LNER J20 and ACE Metropolitan EMU passing near Rhubarb Junction.

[Bulver]

Most impressed, LC, love the Met stock, a great line, which, like your own, went into the country (and some!). I am biased, as I live about 500 metres from one of the 'Metroland' stations.

[roythegrass]

Two feet high sounds a tad too low, much depends on your height and the state of your back!

I'm tall so my layout sits on three foot high supports to avoid constant crouching which is a killer if you have any sort of lower back condition. Even at that height if I had spent a day constructing the layout I could hardly straighten up afterwards.

[LCDR]

 As to height. A lot depends in you garden topography. My garden slopes up away from the house so the boards near the Conservatory are nearly 4 feet above the garden, and at the far end are only about 18 inches up.   Some people prefer a line at ground level.  I would generally agree that about 3 feet is better and more if one is taller.

[2e0dtoeric]

You also need to take into consideration what the Head Gardener has planted, and how tall or wide they get! If you are going around a patio or lawn, there is no real problem, but if the line goes past little bushes that are going to grow into big bushes, or even trees, there could be problems! Drilling a tunnel through a decorative tree-trunk isn't a good idea!

Tunnels are also liked as sleeping places for cats, mice, hedgehogs, bats, and even birds, never mind all the snails, slugs, and spiders! So what goes in - isn't always what comes out again a bit further round!  :-)

[LCDR]

 It  helps if YOU are the Head Gardener.

One thing I needed to plan for was how to cut the grass and trim the bushes up to, behind  and under the layout .

Other little jobs you will need to do even if you will not be running trains is cleaning off bird droppings and fallen fruit from the rails. The acid in these will cause rail corrosion if you leave it. Periodic treating of exposed woodwork is important too.

Not a problem for me as my track is raised, but a ground level line may be affected by worm casts and ants nests unless the sub base is solid (concrete).

I hope this doesn't put you off because a garden railway is still lots of fun.

[ron 47]

Hi Been Runing 00 in the Garden for a long time Dcc Sound Loco the track is 2 ft of the ground i have 4 Cat and they do get out of the way of train have a look at 00 Garden Railway Spensley Junction

Regards Ron

[david_wakefield]

Hi guys 

Wow plenty of info so far. Looks like an elevated layout has the most support. I can see now the drawback of a ground level track bed with all that grovelling around on the floor, and then having to get up again. One Decision made, elevated it is. Now running into a shed...... I hadn't considered that. I will enter into negotiation with the director of domestic affairs at once. 

Would I be correct to go for a fence post and ground spike support arrangement, with the track mounted on deck boards. Measurements and design will commence tomorrow!

Cheers 

Dave 

[david_wakefield]

Hi all

Measurements taken and with the aid of any rail 5 free software I have a layout design on paper. 

LC, two questions. I noticed on your awesome layout there are two brass throw bolts. Are they to allow the track bed to lower for access? Secondly, how is the butane soldering iron working out? This sounds a good idea to me if it works.

I will post some pictures soon.

Cheers Dave.

 

[LCDR]

  Hi David,

Not used the Butane iron yet (two reasons - 1 I haven't bought any butane and need to get some from the supermarket, it uses gas lighter fuel,  2 - the weather has been good, warm & dry, so I am still using the electric soldering iron.) I will post a review when I do use it.

Secondly I have a number of lifting sections so I can get the lawn mower and wheelbarrow etc. passed the layout. These are an added  complication, but necessary. Keeping the rails aligned is important, hence the bolts, but also extra maintenance is needed. Also electrical continuity needs extra work. I have used old house wiring cable buried under the lawn to jump the gap, and a bit of flex soldered to the rails on either side of the hinge.  I use old house wiring cable because it is free (left over from some re-wiring many years ago - I throw NOTHING away! Stripped cable provides the copper wire for the rail joint jumpers too).

Here is the still not quite finished terminus.

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And here is the site of the through station. I am still wiring up the new inner pair of tracks which need a conductor rail. The shed will house my  OO layout. The bridge is there so I can get inside the loop when trains are running

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 Finally - Yes use fence post and ground spike, all my boards are supported that way.

[LCDR]

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The baseboards opened up for a bit of gardening to take place.  Sorry about the 'rubbish' top right which is temporary weather protection of the station area while I construct some proper covers.

Managed to drill some more rails today. Will solder the jumpers over the next few days as we are expecting some high temperatures.

[david_wakefield]

Thanks for all the info LC. Most impressive layout I must say. You have answered a question I have been asking myself, how to get the mower through to the grass.looking forward to the butane soldering review. 

Cheers

Dave

[david_wakefield]

Hi all

Just an update on my railway. I have most of the track bed erected.

I have pictures but have no idea how to attach them to a post. Any suggestions?

Cheers

Dave

[2e0dtoeric]

With a nail?   :-)

Alternatively - sent the pics to photobucket, or similar, which auto-resizes them, and then copy/paste the link onto the forum page.

[LCDR]

Hi all

Just an update on my railway. I have most of the track bed erected.

I have pictures but have no idea how to attach them to a post. Any suggestions?

Cheers

Dave

It is easy to attach pictures to your post if you have them as 'jpg' files in your computer, Most cameras and scanners nowadays use jpg, as a file type to save your pictures and a lot of  picture storage and display software will allow you to save the files as jpg if they are in another format.

When you compose your posting you attach the picture file by clicking on the little black rectangle next to the smiley face at the top of the box where you write you post youy message, this opens a dialogue box which helps you. You browse your files from this box to find the picture you want and then click upload. You may then be asked too pen the picture from the list. When it is posted you can move  the picture around in your posting with the four pointed arrow holding the mouse button down as you do so. You can also resize the picture with the corner handles. After posting you will have to wait for your picture to be moderated, which takes a variable amount of time depending on whether Adam is in the office at the time. 

 

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Here is one I did earlier.