Coupling conversion

[VESPA]

During a recent number alteration to my ICI Methanol wagons I changed the couplings to a smaller style made by Dapol. Much better than the horrible goalpost couplings. However whilst looking at some ads I found yet a better coupling that is in keeping with today's modern NEM small type. These are Hornby R8099 and fit perfectly in the wagons plug and push fitting.

eg  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-R8099-Assemblies-Couplings-Accessory/dp/B001IYOR2O

The Dapol type that are a fraction bigger  http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=177_62_154_198&product_id=113

I have used these links as they are clearer than most as to the design.

I know that there was a topic on couplings a while back by Sarah again but there wasn't any pics so I hadn't grasped the styles. So if you had any Hornby stock with those horrible pluggable couplings and you want to change them this will give you an idea. I am going to work on changing those "fixed" large couplings next for something smaller.

 

[walkingthedog]

I've been using those couplings for years Vespa. Apart from plugging in they are ideal to replace older couplings that are held by a screw. 

[Puffed Out]

Are these couplings usable, for converting 30 Ton BOGIE BOLSTER WAGON. ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Hornby-Dublo-OO-Gauge-3-rail-30-Ton-Bogie-Bolster-Wagons-with-logs-M720550/254497998747

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Be aware that 3-rail Hornby Dublo stock, such as these bogie bolsters, will not work on 2-rail track.

 

Your layout in the other thread is 2-rail.

 

The 3-rail stock has metal wheels and axles, that are NOT insulated.

They will create a short circuit when placed on 2-rail track.

 

And...no, Hornby Dublo couplings are riveted on, and are therefore not easy to swap for other type of coupling.

 

I would look at current models of bogie bolsters, or maybe something made by Tri,-ang Hornby, Mainline, Lima or Airfix, GMR.

 

All these are 2-rail models.

 

The Hornby R8099 coupling assembly is a direct fit into the mounting system originally used by the Airfix RTR models.

This is a clip on coupling, that fits into a peg, which has a clip on lid over it.

 

This mounting was carried on by Mainline when they took over the Airfix, GMR (Great Model Railways) range.

 

When Dapol took over some of the Mainline range, they also carried on using this mounting.

 

The ex Dapol models now in the Hornby range tend to have this coupling mounting, as do some Hornby tenders, that do not have NEM pockets, such as the earlier Rebuilt Merchant Navy locos.

 

[Puffed Out]

I was just wondering about the couplings. I've 6 tatty old bogie bolsters for static, mechanical/scrap scenery. Not the ones in the Fleabay link.

Thanks Sarah. 😀

[LCDR]

If the wagons are only intended as scenery and not to be hauled in a train then personally I wouldn't bother to mess about with the couplings. 

 

Sarah's advice regarding the wagons with metal wheels is excellent.  Before 1958 Hornby Dublo trains all had metal wheels without insulation so cannot be used on 2 rail layouts.. Triang and Trix used plastic wheels . Peco Wonderful Wagons used nylon wheels so are OK for 2 rail.

 

Modern metal wheels do have insulation between the wheel and axle so are fine on two rail (apart from a rogue Collett coach it seems mentioned in a recent post) . 

 

Newbies can get confused with second hand Hornby Dublo, thinking these are the same as modern Hornby and unscrupulous sellers on Auction sites may take advantage of them, so it is worth making a careful distinction between the two.  This confusion could be compounded after this year with the retro-packaged products being offered at the 100th Birthday . Modern Hornby trains collect electricity through the running rails, but go back 70 years and Hornby train sets had a third rail down the middle of the track which was insulated from the running rails and collected current through a skate or plunger pressing down on it. This allowed rolling stock without insulated wheels to be used, a situation that no longer exists. 

 

Turning to couplings now for a moment there were two basic types (with minor variations) . The common one used to be a knuckle coupler developed by Peco and adopted by Hornby Dublo. This was shaped like a hand held sideways with fingers bent. 

 

After using the Continental  centre buffer and dropped loop  coupler Trix, which had its origins in Germany  eventually changed to the Peco knuckle type and Playcraft also adopted it. Both systems are now defunct. The Continental centre buffer drop loop is still used by overseas manufacturers.

 

Graham Farish and Triang however adopted a hook and bar type where a vertical hook dropped over a horizontal loop or bar. The two different types would not couple together reliably so users had to choose one or the other. 

 

With the demise of Hornby Dublo in 1965 and despite later being made in plastic, the knuckle coupler also faded away. It is still found in large numbers on second hand stock. Wrenn who took over production of former Hornby Dublo locomotives and rolling stock used the hook and bar coupler instead. 

 

The hook and bar has evolved over the years. The early Triang had a simple bar made of pressed steel and a sharp pointed hook. This could become distorted with rough handling. Then in about 1958 it was replaced by the Tension lock coupler which had been tried originally on Triang's short lived TT3 range. The Tension lock was still made from pressed steel but the hook was shaped so that when the couplings were in tension the hook was caught under a folded rib  on the bar making it less easy to uncouple. To uncouple the wagons needed to be pushed together to unhook it. Fortunately the older hook and bar will still couple to the tension lock. 

 

A plastic version of the tension lock appeared later, somewhat heavier in profile (and uglier) and often a the bar was moulded to the chassis.  In more recent times the tension lock has been reduced in size firstly by Airfix / Mainline and more recently as a mini coupling which plugged into a NEM pocket under the wagon which is commonly used nowadays.

 

The knuckle coupler has not gone away entirely, but had re-emerged from across the Atlantic as the Kaydee coupler. This looks like the AAR coupler found on real US rolling stock (Buckeye here in the UK) and also plugs into the NEM pockets. It is popular amongst serious modellers and certainly is far less intrusive than the hook and bar.

[Rana Temporia]

With the Hornby Dublo stock, also be aware that if you go to the trouble of drilling out or filing off the rivet that's hold it in place you can't simply add a Hornby type coupler as it will be at the wrong height (too high). You will have to put a spacer in place. There used to be conversion kits available but these are probably only available on auction sites now. 

For the standard non-bogie wagons you can use Lima chassis to replace the HD ones as they are the same length but the wagons are then non-original. With a Lima chassis your modern locos will pull more than 3 of them though!  😀

[Ruffnut Thorston]

If your tatty bogie bolsters are Tri-ang made, then they will have 2-rail wheels...

 

Remember, that even if static on the track, non isolated metal wheels on metal axles will shirt circuit if the track they are on is joined to the powered tracks...

 

Have fun! 😉

[Puffed Out]

Essentially they are going to be 'scrap'......just for scenery effect. But for a few quid, and head scratching and patience, I might try having a go at one for a conversion. Transferance of skills from re-vamping older Scalextric may help. But I doubt it. 😉

If the patience does wear thin.....they will definitely be scrap scenery. 😆

[Puffed Out]

Two of the Bogie Bolsters have the plastic wheels, the other 4 have the metal jobbies. I have run the 2 with the other goods trucks, but the others wll go for scenery effect as scrap items.

Rather heavy old lumps, compared to the other goods trucks. So they won't get used to often. 😉

[Il Grifone]

£25 is rather a lot for 4 Dublo Bogie Bolsters IMHO. These have log loads added and held by jewellery chain*. Originally they did not have a load. They are also rather a flight of fancy as they have the underframe of the LNER brick wagon, which AFAIK was never used under any bogie bolsters even by the LNER let alone the LMS.

As previously stated they have metal wheels for the 3 rail system and Dublo couplings. Really to change either/both the bogies need to be removed. They are held by rivets through the wagon floor which have to be drilled out. The coupling rivets can be forced out by a suitable pin (I use a reversed drill bit) in a press or drilled out. Replacedments acn then be bolted on ensuring they are at the correct height. The wheels are released by lifting the tinplate tags which hold bearing plate in place and then fitteing the insulated replacements ideally with pin point bearings. These will need a special short axle.

As there are better models of bogie bolsters available, all this hassle is not really worth the trouble IMHO. These are really for collectors or Dublo fans (like myself).

* Apart from the gold colour (the real thing would be rust) these are a decorative twisted chain. Patience will find the correct type and size on sale cheaply in places such as 'Primark' (usual disclaimer). It can even be found in a coppery colour which looks far more realistic. Proper model chain can be obtained of course.

[Puffed Out]

No idea who paid £25, but it wasn't me. I toyed with the idea of a conversion, but it would have been cheaper and easier to buy newer one, and in better condition.

Logs and chains.....I've no need for those. The ones I bought are for scrap, scenery decoration only. The two that run are too heavy in reality., for my little old engine.  They certainly made it puff.

[JJ73]

On my lastest "Tunstead Quarry" video - I have got a photo of a real Coupling betweet 2 wagons - would that be too big???  😉 😆 😀

[LCDR]

Main line  couplings , passenger stock.

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Couplings Left to right - (above buffer) - RCH lighting control jumper, (below buffers) - ETH Socket, Air Brake Pipe, Vacuum Brake Pipe, Main Reservoir air pipe, "Buckeye" coupling (lowered, on coupling hook) , Steam Heat pipe, (Above buffer)  ETH jumper.

(ETH= Electric Train Heat), cable hangs below buffer.

 

Centre buffer is part of gangway  Side buffers are retracted when auto coupler is in use.

[LCDR]

Instanter coupling on freight stock

 

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[JJ73]

Here is mine Photo LC...

 

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I think that I'm right in saying that we have 3 differant types of actual real couplings!!!

Or may be not...

[SRmike]

The older HD wagons had metal bodies on metal chassis with the wheels held in by metal clips which was not a problem for 3rail. When they produced a 2rail system they produced 'super detail' wagons with insulated wheels and mounts.The bodies are excellent and look good and I prefer the 'Peco' couplings to the hook and bar fitted to modern model.

[LCDR]

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Here are some examples of OO/HO couplings.

[Traincliff]

Don't forget that Triang-Hornby produced converter wagons with Hornby Dublo coupling on one end and Triang/Hornby coupling on the other end. These enable you to run Triang and Hornby Dublo stock together. I have successfully converted a number of old HD wagons to run on modern 2 rail track using modern Hornby wheels. I have removed the new wheels from the pin point axles and carefully pressed them on to a shortened Triang plain axle .After setting the back to back at 14.5mm I have replaced the old all metal axles with these "new" made up wheelsets.