Augustus Caesar Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 No problem pidder... none at all. It's not as important as maybe keeping things positive for you with the Elite and not giving up when even a small chance may get a result.I undersatnd you have tried on two machines to get things working but if you get a chance to try with maybe even taking the unit to a model shop who can do a possible update for you using an earlier version of Windows it is worth a shout even trying that maybe?Am I clutching at straws? Well, maybe a little but if it works you will have a unit you can depend upon for some time longer than you thought. Just giving options.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 @ACThe term bricked is what we on the forum have been using to describe an Elite put out of use by a failed firmware update. Bricked in the usual sense would mean failed beyond recovery, which our bricked Elites generally are by way of another attempt at the firmware update. I would suggest the Hornby bench check is a standard serviceability test comprising putting the Elite through a series of logical functional steps and looking for a pass/fail at each step. This may be way of setting the Elite into a test mode (similar to but obviously different from the firmware update mode or we all do it) or more likely by applying a software application from a PC via USB that does much the same thing. In the event the Elite passes all stages then it will update - maybe the update is part of the bench check. In the event it fails any stage then one assumption is Hornby would know what circuit was involved and what the likely faulted component(s) are and hence if a repair can be made or not. As has been guessed at by Fishy I think, Hornby UK may not be equipped to carry out board level repairs and as he suggested batching them out to a sub contractor could have been a sensible option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 Thanks both. Think I'll persevere with this for a while, I'll report back...but don't hold your breath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 @RAFI accept your use of the term bricked to describe an Elite via an update of its firmware that basically breaks the Elite but does not put it beyond use. However, in my role with IT all my colleagues, past and present, I have always known 'bricked' to be a term that describes a piece of equipment that cannot be used, firmware update or no, that is beyond use and therefore only worthy of one thing... throwing away. Hence the terminology of using the word bricked.So in that sense it is used slightly incorrectly on here. I have no issue with that of course and as the term has been utilised for so long I will look at using it in the same context as yourselves as attempting to change it seems a tad daft and not likely to succeed anyway. Grrr... :-)Seriously, I'm glad you point it out so at least I know what you will all mean when using the term hereon in... @pidderAlways worth another shot even when all seems lost... good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Not surprising given my suggestions, I think you are most probably correct in your assessment of what Hornby do Rob. They have the diagnostics to know what is wrong but not the repair skills to back them up. Then, these days it doesn't take long before the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the item anyway. And in this instance, the value of the item to Hornby is the wholesale price, not the retail we pay. Then that raises another possibility Hornby might consider. Given Elites are failing at a relatively young age for today's electronics, it would be good if Hornby were to consider a reduced price new for old to replace of those found uneconomic to repair. Then they might also keep the failed items and look at a possible batch repair at a later date when they have enough. Or not on this second point, it's the first point that should be considered. PS. I must also apologise to John for being a little harsh on him earlier in the thread. My concern at the time was that others may fail to update their Elites and not get the benefits of doing so based on his advice. I think AC's further explanation of the technical improbability or impossibility of the Update itself being the cause of the failure in pidder's case further illustrates the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Good suggestion Fishy to offer replacement units for a discount price, then batch out repairs to restock the bargain box. Worth suggesting to Hornby. It is interesting about the price of doing things in house. Yesterday I visited a firm that markets 'boxes' and their methodology is they make up kits of parts from bought in items, then sub them out locally in batches for assembly, then they calibrate the built boxes in house before despatch to customer order, so horses for courses. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Done, I reported myself to Adam and asked him to pass it on to HCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 @FishyIdea supported - side door. If I can master the soldering with my new kit I might bid for the sub-con ⛑ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Wasted another couple hours yesterday trying to resurrect my defunct Elite, to no avail. Was going to bin it to stop me wasting yet more time on it. Should I hang on for some sort of offer? It really is proving a dead loss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Four things you COULD do if you have decided not to pursue this issue any longer in the way of attempted updates...Keep it in case you get another and it too has a fault which may need a part salvageable from the one you have now... that's not being sarcastic in any way but just offering a simple choice.Literally open it up if you feel like throwing it away and looking for a part that is damaged and ready to replace.Take it to a shop or a fellow modeller at your local model railway club and ask them to see if they can do the update for you. Even if they charge a minimal fiver or tenner it's going to be worth it. Email or call the group secretary to seek their advice.Have a few more more shots at getting it going, esp. on an earlier version of Windows. If you have a copy of WinXP and can load it onto your hard drive and place Win10 alongside then use XP to try the update. Even Win Vista or 7 is better than nothing. You probably won't need a key for WinXP as you will be doing only one job and then get rid. Just a few ideas but personally I wouldn't throw it away at all. I don't horad stuff but do keep things that are going to prove useful in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 At least hang on until I have a response from Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 Thanks both for your latest thoughts.I shall be interested in any response from Hornby. As to opening the case to inspect or salvage, this appears to require a special tringular screwdriver. Is there any other way? I have to say, I am really fed up with this piece of equipment and am still inclined to dump it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 ... Was going to bin it to stop me wasting yet more time on it. Should I hang on for some sort of offer? It really is proving a dead loss... There is really no point at all in binning it. Just put it to one side and try any new ideas that come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 An Allen key will fit the triangular screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 RAF Thanks, I'll give it a go. RDS, Willdo, but I really am tired of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Pidder To get the case apart there are 5 screws in the underside, 4 more in the back panel and 2 more going upwards on the back panel To the top case. If you want to lift the main PCB then it clips into the top case - one black clip either side, but you also need to free the white ribbon cable by easing the clip on the clamp as well as prising off the speed encoder knobs and removing their hex nut and washer. The main board lifts out for inspection of both sides, but all components are on the initial viewing side anyway so probably not worth the effort taking it out. Have a look at the article on my signature linked site which talks to putting a backlight into the Elite to see what is in there.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Caesar Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 @pidderAs stated on a new thread also by RAF there is a new update (v1.44) that you may consider which works well apparently according to early posters and first time it seems.You may want to give that a go.Here's the thread, if you ain't already seen it...https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/elite-v144-is-out/?p=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 RAF Thanks for your fuller advice on a dismantle, I am still trying to get the screws out, my allen key doesn't seem to do the job, do I need anything special?AC Thanks also, I may give it a try, but really fed up with the whole matter of an update, considering my unit was working o.k. before I started this lark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 PidderI used a triangular bit found in one of those pound shop multibit screwdrivers but the screwheads are soft and I ended up on a couple using a hex bit which I tapped in tight with a small hammer and then when they were out swapped them for regular self tapping screws for plastic. A flat blade bit tapped in can also work with the awkward ones, but as the five main screws are recessed it is difficult to see what you are doing.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Something for everyone's tool box..So many things are now fixed with some form of Security Screw to prevent easy access. You can now buy 'Security Screw Bit Sets' quite cheaply to cater for the majority of the different security screw designs. I recommend searching out the slightly more expensive long shank (75mm) variety as the security screws on some products are recessed in deep holes..The above links are purely examples, so you know what you are searching for.Note: They include triangular bits to suit the Elite screw fixings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 RAF and Chrissaf Thanks, just tried 1.44, same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 Fishmanoz re previous on this subject, do I assume no response from Adam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Have yet to see any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pidder Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Not sure if I put this under this heading when I last sought advice, back earlier in the year, about the failure of my upgrade attempt with my Elite. Here is the latest. I have tried an update using my bro-in-law's PC running an old version of Vista, the Elite showed up in Device Manager - Ports as some very odd item, precise details I can't recall, but properties then showed that the item wasn't working, requiring some driver which Windows tried to find, but without success.I have spent a lot of time on this, I really think this upgrade lark is more trouble than it's worth. I wonder if anyone has other suggestions. Perhaps I should go back to Hornby again, this only arose from my original attempt to upgrade, as recommended by Hornby and this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Is this the Elite that was a bit dodgy to start with? Contact HCC and ask if you can send it back for them to upgrade. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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