Problem with updating Elite

[Fishmanoz]

Pidder, very easy to find where you discussed this previously just by clicking on yourself and going to page 2 of your posts.  There you will find a very long topic called Problem with updating Elite from February plus you discussed it in Elite v1.44 is out.

 

In those it seems to be clear HCC has said it is beyond Hornby's economic repair and, while there was lots of speculation around whether the update killed it (not likely), it is certainly dead.  I think you need a new controller. 

 

May i I also suggest a mod move these posts to the end of the previous topic (not v1.44) and so keep the discussion together where the full background can be seen, then hide this topic.  Usually the problem is people tacking onto the end of a different topic rather than starting their own, but you've done the reverse piddder. 

[Fishmanoz]

Here is your topic back on top of the heap pidder.

[pidder]

Fishmanoz  Thanks for your response, didn't realise I could access previous posts so easily, duly noted. My main reason for raising this again, wondered if anyone might comment on the use of Vista, and the apparent non-availability of a needed driver. I think Hornby just took the view that this is an older unit, judging by the date indication on the back, and therefor time to dump it as with most electronics when they pass about five years. 

Thanks for your interest, I really must not waste any more time on this, and yours, and RAFs...

[96RAF]

I don't consider it time wasted Pidder.

 

Where in the world are you as if close to anyone who can physically help with a known good laptop or pc then possibly you could meet up and try your Elite with their update.

 

Rob

[Chrissaf]

Just to answer the question. Vista doesn't use the Microsoft provided USB driver. In Vista you use the Hornby provided driver. The Hornby Vista driver is located in the 'Driver' folder (within the RailMaster program folder) installed on the PC during the installation of RailMaster.

.

It is also contained in the ZIP, containing the Elite firmware upgrade pack downloadable from this site ('Help & Advice'......'Downloads').

[96RAF]

Is there not also a step by step guide for Vista included in the firmware upgrade package.

 

If not its a simple case of right click the Elite in Dev Mage and click update driver and navigate to the Folder as Chris said.

 

Rob

[pidder]

Thanks Rob and Chrissaf, Think I'll just give it up as a bad job! I have another controller, so not without running ability. I'll wait for Hornby to produce a proper wireless operating controller. Thanks for all your advices.

[Augustus Caesar]

@pidder

 

You say that the Elite showed up in Vista as 'a very odd item' when you tried on your brother-in-law's system...

From that I would immediately gather, given the history of this topic, that the updates ARE getting to the Elite and are beginning to overwrite the firmware but are subsequently failing to complete the job.

 

I say this because it is from the firmware that the name of the hardware is read from the BIOS chip that will be updated. Now, if the update NEVER begins the process of writing to the chip then the name of the hardware would be found by Vista or any other OS. Granted it may require the driver to CORRECTLY identify the Elite but at least some form of description would be pretty standard... i.e. ‘CD RS-232 Emulation Demo’ under 'Other devices' for example.

You said it was some strange description... if it was not the Demo that I list above then this means the update has begun the process of writing to the chip but has failed to complete the job.

If that is true then it seems I was correct a while back when saying that other chips which would aid the writing process to start and finish (like a form of cache if you like) would be the likely failure point. If that is not the case then the firmware chip itself may be guilty of being corrupted beyond any repair but that would then tell me that the chip was already defective without any possible reason to detect or understand its future fail.

 

I would still be very tempted to give Hornby (HCC) another whirl and argue that point. That, however, is your call obviously.

However, I have now included a section on updating the Elite using Windows 10 on my Help Site https://octaviancs.com/railmaster/updatingelite.php?id=updatingelite. Now, whilst you have probably given all scenarios a whirl already, there is no harm in taking a look and attempting the absolute step by step process I include. The process is the same for v1.43 and v1.44 of the firmware. The Vista driver is included as stated earlier in the thread within the relevant software but is not required at this stage.

I would also argue with Hornby that as you are entitled to update its hardware by normal means to obtain maximum use and to keep up to date with new functionality etc. that it is their hardware that is failing with their firmware update and that you have attempted all reasonable means of sorting this yourself without resorting to physical means of opening up the box (maybe?) and that this can be proved by your attempts at following procedures on here by many with relevant expertise in this area. By stating that they may take another look at this box for you and offer any one of many procedures to take this forward and see you with a working box.

 

You could also quote many parts of this thread where I and others have offered much help and advice which, under normal circumstances, would have given a definitive fix and good outcome.

Hope this helps.

[pidder]

Hello AC  Many thanks for your further advice. I think you have correctly identified  the description which showed up under Device Manager, does this indicate a hardware fault? I will read through your posting more thoroughly, possibly try another update and if that fails, another go at HCC. Anyway, thanks very much for your interest.

[Chrissaf]

If Device Manager lists and I quote "CDC RS-232 Emulation Demo", then the Elite driver in Vista is not yet fully installed. The driver installation is only at the 'half way' stage. To complete the driver installation, you need to right click the 'CDC RS-232 Emulation Demo' entry and choose the 'update driver' option, then follow on screen prompts to navigate to the 'Hornby Drivers Folder' (do not use the "Lets Windows search for the driver" option). Device manager should then be able to find the driver file and complete the rest of the driver installation. When completed successfully, the CDC RS-232 Emulation Demo entry will disappear to be replaced by an entry shown as "R8214 Hornby Elite".

[96RAF]

As this is (and has been for some time) a 'bricked' Elite Dev Mgr will struggle to hang a label on it, probably to the point of saying it is an unknown device and that no driver is required.

 

Even my duff Elites with self inflicted 'no programming capability' will still update, so I am also inclined to agree with AC that the basic device central pic chip is corrupt preventing an update. There is no history of such a failure so the mode of failure cannot even be guessed at without design knowledge.

Rob

[Augustus Caesar]

I rather think we are closer to determining whether or not this unit is definitely at fault or not.

If it can be tested again on the Vista machine using the detail offered above re the 'Demo' section and the proper driver to at least ID the unit correctly then that at least SHOULD tell us at which point it fails or whether it succeeds obviously. That point of failure should be noted so we can go to the next logical step.

Attempting to update in Windows 10 even will give a possible failure point too and this also should be noted. If there are similarities about the failure points on BOTH attempts then this should also give a clue to what is wrong with the unit or no.

If, as I suspect along with RAF, the pic chip is at fault then a warranty fix or replacement should be allowed by Hornby whether under any warranty or not. This is due to a fault which is extremely unlikely to be caused by human error or intervention. Therefore a manufacturing failure which should be very easy to convince Hornby of if the details are carefully taken from this thread and used to give them a picture of what you have actually tried to achieve re the update.

Good luck with the attempts.... let us know what happens.

[pidder]

Thanks AC et al, I've tried with my W10 laptop again today with the expected result. The Vista PC is not local and I don't think a special journey is warranted. I noted the requirements you mention in your website, i.e. removal of background apps and adjustment of privacy settings. I didn't feel I could go as far as this, not sure what damage I might do to my OS as it is set up. Did think of trying in Safe Mode, but you will know that to get into Safe Mode with W10 requires an Honours Degree in Computer Technology!

I must accept this as a dead loss and put it down to experience. Anyone interested in dabbling with it as a freebie?....

Thanks for the interest you have taken.

[ff2nd]

Hi Pidder. Probably the stupid question for the day: When you plug that "dead" Elite into the power supply, do you get any lights/display at all? Or is it totally dead?

[pidder]

Hello ff2nd   Thanks for your interest, didn't expect to take this any further. When I plug in the power lead the green light comes on, very pale boxes show along the display, it just doesn't accept the download. The consensus is that some unit on the printed circuit is faulty. Not worth wasting any more time on it. 

[PeterRowney]

Hi Pidder

 

I am wondering if you are still around.

 

I have read this thread in it's entirety, and I have the EXACT same problem as you.

 

I tried for days and days to un-brick my Elite after a failed update 

 

that was about 3 years ago and this week I have spent another two days trying every single tip and trick I have read.

 

All to no avail.

 

As I live in Australia, returning the unit to Hornby is out of the question.

 

Do you have any suggestions for me?

 

My unit cost me $500

 

[pidder]

Hi Peter (my namesake) doubtless you will see my other reply elsewhere, can only say, don't waste any more time on it. Mine was several years old, sent to Hornby who returned it as unrepairable. 

[Sultan]

Peter,  I swapped from a Hornby Elite with 2 Select walkabouts to the NCE power cab system and have never looked back.  The NCE is so much more versalite and user friendly.  I am sure there must be an NCE agent in Oz who will provide a full support service.  I use Coastal DCC in the UK and they have bene brilliant.  Once you have the Power Cab you can very simply add additional controllers.

[Teedoubleudee]

I know this is a VERY OLD thread but as I have just come across it whilst searching for the same answer I thought I might just add a solution that worked for me, that isn't mentioned elsewhere and may help others who find themselves trolling through these pages. To be fair it probably would not have worked for the OP as he had tried two different computers.

My solution was simples in the end. After several unsuccessful attempts at trying to update from 1.42 to 1.45 and carefully following all the advice about 15 secs wait time etc. I was about to give up when I thought I'd try a different physical USB port on my PC. The one I was previously using was allocated Com Port 4, it seemed to load the driver OK but kept failing to download immediately with a Com Port Error. So I tried a different USB port. This was allocated Com Port 5 and driver updated.

Bingo! Worked first time. Took about 4 minutes to download and rebooted into v1.45. One happy bunny. Hope this might help someone else as these controllers still seem to be popular.