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[NickNack32]

[walkingthedog]

When you say isn't being made, do you mean by Hornby or all of the other companies. There are people who will build you any loco but it will cost a great deal of money. 

[The son of Triangman]

I agree, you will need deep pockets. Also you have to consider that OO is a toy scale and gauge, and is not true scale so if you are spending that sort of money you might as well go P4.

[LCDR]

 Your cheaper option might be to find out if there is a kit for the type you want and then look in the magazines for someone who will build it for you. There are a number of small businesses who offer this service but not all advertise on line. Some do it as a hobby.

 

Here are a few -

http://www.sefinecast.co.uk/

http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/oo-gauge-list/

http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/category/76/4mm-scale-locomotive-kits/

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/

https://52fmodels.sharepoint.com/Pages/default.aspx

There are many more - Google 4mm locomotive kits

 

Depending on the type of kit and loco you will still be looking at £200-£300 upwards.

[LCDR]

 I have made a few Golden Arrow kits (Merchant Navy, SECR D1 and SECR O1), their D1 was a bit disappointing but I was pleased with the other two. I still have a Z to build

[The son of Triangman]

Having kits built will still be expensive, paintwork and linning takes time to do properly and is expensive due to the time taken and materials used. You won't get much change out of several hundred pounds for a professionally build kit loco in OO scale.

[The son of Triangman]

Totally agree any builder worth his or her salt that isn't starting up will have full order books and a waiting list as long as your arm.

[Fazy]

The loco class you want might give us a better idea. Is a kit is available,  or if its a scratch build jobbie. Something like a Pacific kit will cost about a £1000 give or take a couple of hundred. splits into 

Loco kit £200 ~

wheels £ 100~

Motor gears £ 50- 150.

Suspension and roller bearings can add cost. 

Plus bits £10-100+

Build £300-1000+ depending on class

Painting +  lining £ 200- 600+ 

then you can throw even more at the model is you want DCC and or sound, smoke, lights as well as super detailing such as working inside valves, moving reversing rode opening smokebox , etc.

 

Mind you wanting all this in one model would not only be hard to achieve, but the cost would sky rocket. Into multiple thousands of pounds. 

 

If a kit is not available I would hate to think how much it would cost you would need a man like

R Guy Williams, if he's still around. And very deep pockets along with knowledge of what you want!

[Fazy]

Many professional builders can be found lurking on RMWEB. Read some of the build topic to see their build quality and then ask if they or any others are willing to build what you want.  However don't expect it to be cheap as already started by others on this topic page. You may also find the odd builder on the P4 site but most are one both websites

[LCDR]

 Smaller locos will not cost quite as much as £1000, tank engines with inside cylinders undoubredly will be cheaper than multi wheeled express locos with outside valve gear.  The 'Golden Arrow' resin kits mentioned earlier can be put together under £300.  Even the air -smoothed Merchant Navy was less than that, but I did use a second hand Hornby rebuild MN chassis and spare BoB connecting rods, cylinders etc.

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[Francis-1239786]

OK so I know this is an old thread, but just so's to give other people an idea of what it really costs to have a kit built professionally, I recently did a break down of all of the operations needed to make up a typical mixed media etch brass and whitemetal kit, and the run down for a pacific or 4-6-0 type tender loco came out something like this....

45 hours for the chassis including outside valve gear

25 hours for the locomotive body

30 hours for the tender

25 hours painting

Total cost including about 10% for bits and pieces that don't come in the kit (or need to be thrown away as being either the wrong shape, too weak or missing) comes to around £2000 at 15 squid an hour.... Which is still only about what a jobbing gardener gets around here in deepest Dorset (and there's still the tax and his overheads - van, tools etc. - to come out of that remember - so it is with a 'real' professional loco builder).

Now you might think that this is a bit excessive and a bit of a rip off for an OO gauge model that Hornby or Bachmann can turn out by the zillions for around £300. And there are I'm sure loads of people out there who can turn you out such a model for about half that or less.

However, you get what you pay for - as with most things in this life. In my misspent youth back in the late 1970s, I think I could assemble a whitemetal 'Schools' class 4-4-0 in under a week - including the etched chassis. Now, it can take three to four months before I am happy to pack up an engine to send off to one of my clients.

As a professional builder, I have to come at least somewhere close to the quality of today's RTR. The detail is the easy bit, but what really takes the time is getting the mechanism to run smoothly from a crawl up to a scale canter, both going forwards and reverse. Despite what people will tell you, model locomotive kits don't go together like model aircraft or armoured vehicles. And don't forget, to do the job properly - and to avoid gumming up the works - once the 'metal-bashing bit' is done it all has to come apart to be painted.

Little things add the time. Lamp irons which need to be filed from solid, as it you use the kit's etched ones, they will break off for a pasttime. Recently I had to make new slidebars for a French 4-8-0, because the ones supplied were not only too short to fit into the cylinders, but too far apart to allow the crossheads to slide to and fro. And then there are current pick up wipers and insulated plates to cut out and drill, each one made removable with M2 screws so that you can adjust the pressure on the inside of the wheel flanges (most loco kit instructions leave these to the builder to sort out, or else mumble something about soldering bits of phosphor-bronze wire to a bit of copper-clad paxolin, which is then glued to 'somewhere convenient' on the underside of the chassis...

And I could go on and on.

[JJ73]

WOW Francis & Welcome to the Hornby Forum 🙂🚂🚂🚂

[Fazy]

Hi Francis, good to hear from you and your opinion as pro, seems I was a little under with my costing.

Though I’m pleased to here it’s the getting the running right that takes the time. I’m no pro but I do like to build and scratch build locos. the running is the hard bit, that and the valve gear for me anyway. But slowly getting better.

[wairoalbany]

Really nice rundown Francis. I had no idea building a kit was so intensive. Thanks for the introduction.

[VESPA]

Francis is spot on with costs and time. Some modellers in larger guages spend a few years making a loco from parts that also have to be made. The prices then, if ever sold, are well in the £Ks. I used to go to the Model Engineers exhibitions and see the fantastic work there. My Dad bought a Myford ML7 lathe, drilling machine etc with the intention we would build a live steam loco. Sadly 12 months later he died and I had just got married, so it never happened due to time constraints.

[Francis-1239786]

This one's for Fazy and Vespa. The valve gear first. The secret to getting this part of the model to work, is to be able to 'feel' for any tight spots or fouls just by turning the wheels by hand. Ideally you need to take the motor out, and demount any current collectors you have already fitted as part of getting the chassis to run, so the only resistance you are detecting - if any - is down to the valve gear and possibly the coupling rods.

Now, that's fine if you can build up the valve gear in stages - and take it all down again each time you find a tight spot, ease the hole or whatever, then reassemble. Cast brass crossheads can be opened out to sit deeper into the slidebars by nipping them up in a vice and using a swiss file or failing that a fine razor saw blade or a piercing saw blade.

Often, a tight spot occurs in the valve gear, because the back of the crosshead or the connecting rod will inermittently hit the crank pin securing screw (or whatever) on the wheel and axle that sits just aft of the cylinders and behind the valve gear. You won't have it every time the wheels go around, but only say when the loco goes around a reverse curve or crossover from fast to slow lines on your layout. If you look at most commercial products as made by Hornby and others, their designers allow for a reasonable gap between wheels and slidebars to avoid this happening. A kit designer often won't do that, 'cos if he does it will upset the 'finescale' people out there who want everything reduced down as per the original works drawings....

Vespa's notes about the cost of completely scratchbuilt locos in the larger scales is actually the other way around. Because most of these models are made by amateurs, who are not costing their time, they are in fact 'relatively' cheap for what they are - if you can call £K's and up cheap. The problem comes of course when you need to find someone of the same calibre of skills to repair them, or recommission them after years sitting in a glass case. Stanley Beeson, who was a renowned commercial scratch builder in the 60s and 70s I think, charged then about £6K for a King in gauge O, but this had full cab fittings, working inside cylinders and motion, the works.

Mod note: Francis, as a new member you won't be aware of the nuances of using this custom forum. This post has been edited to remove the quote wrap that was applied from using the blue button. This blue button is not a "Reply to this post button". You will find making a reply more efficient if you use the "Reply Text Box" at the bottom of the screen. You won't then have to remove all the requote text that you performed above.