Touchscreen Monitor: Resolution?

[BagEndJct]

Whoops, too late to do an edit; of course that should read 1920x1200 resolution. 

[Chris Surrey]

Can't answer your question as such but one thing to check is whether the graphics card on the laptop can handle high resolution monitors. Would be a pity to buy a screen only to find it is limited to a resolution lower than you want by the laptop. Of course, you may have already checked this.

[96RAF]

Being a laptop you could take it with you to the screen vendor and ask for a demo connection.

Rob

[BagEndJct]

Thanks. Yes, I need to check that. It has HDMI output but would need to check its resolution. Good idea re testing. I have a friendly local shop who would allow me to test it out.

 

Another spelling mistake! This time in the title. Wonder if MODERATORS could amend it, please? Toouchscreen indood!

[RB51]

I'm thinking about improving my Railmaster control by buying a touchscreen monitor to plug into my smallish Windows 10 laptop on which I struggle to control my locos and layout. I can't find many recent posts ont this subject but I saw in a long thread that was running in 2014 that a resolution of 192x1200 was recommended. These seem to be quite rare and expensive now, most being the "Full HD" resolution of 1920x1080.

 

I'd welcome advice on what I should be looking for and any other advice on use of a touchscreen monitor? Thank you.

[RB51]

Title amended as requested. R-

[Howbi]

@BagEndJct...............A 22" touchscreen monitor such as this iiyama model is automatically set at a resolution of 1920 x 1080.........these numbers represent the relative proportion between the width & height of the screen in pixels @ 4 pixels to the millimetre..........your laptop should have no difficulty in powering this type of monitor via HDMI if fitted or the standard VGA connector.........if you right click on your background you can view your display properties and choice of resolutions..........HB

[BagEndJct]

Thank you RogerB and howbiman.

 

howbiman: so what about the recommended resolution of 1920 and 1200 which I read somewhere on this forum and, of course, cannot find now!? Except for this....apparently from the RM manual:"View up to ten loco controllers on the screen at the same time for control, dependant on screen resolution (1920x1200)"

[Chrissaf]

BEJ,

Just be aware that to get a high resolution screen to natively display a high resolution picture, every component in the picture signal path has to support that resolution. Therefore investigating a 1920 x 1200 display is somewhat pointless if your graphic chip cannot support it.

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With a traditional desktop / tower PC you have the option of fitting a modular graphic card supporting that resolution to replace the factory installed card. You really don't have that luxury with a laptop as the graphic chip will (typically) be soldered directly to the Laptop motherboard.

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To find out what the maximum resolution your graphic chip will support is easy enough. Place the mouse cursor on a blank part of your screen desktop and 'right click it'. Supported resolutions will normally appear as a 'right click menu' option.

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To the best of my knowledge. The HDMI standard (at least prior to 4K) was a resolution of 1920 x 1080. I used the word "natively" in my first paragraph on purpose. Other resolutions may be supported through extrapolation.

 

[Howbi]

It's all a question of 'Aspect Ratio'.........that is width versus height........if you want to achieve 1920x1200 then you have to buy a monitor with an Aspect Ratio of 16:10......these are more expensive than the Industry Standard 16:9 monitors of today where the the resolution is 1920x1080.........the benefit of 16:10 is the ability to see more document vertically which is why RM mentions this feature.........the problem is whether your graphics card can run at 1920x1200.........HB

[Augustus Caesar]

One could also consider a monitor that swivels to give portrait views... (turning it on its side for the uninitiated).

Other aspects of the display for RM will, of course, also need to be considered but it depends upon what you want to see.

 

A monitor of 1900x1200 pixels is indeed more expensive but a resolution of 1900x1080 is not that much smaller anyway so what are you really going to gain with that extra 120 pixels in height... not a lot.

Quite why that higher res was advised is a little odd in one sense given that budgets won't always stretch and the extra viewing area is not something special.

 

A little trick to consider here also if you REALLY want that extra space is this...

Once you have everything set up the way you want it you can simply hide the taskbar (on the 1900x1080 monitor) at the foot of the screen and have it reappear when you hover the mouse near the bottom edge of the screen iself. It is easy to do and is Windows specific of course and not related to the monitor itself. You will gain almost all of that extra height you would have if using a 1900x1200 pixel monitor. Of course the taskbar is only there if you need it when moving the mouse to the foot of the said screen... worth thinking about and it will save all the hassle of spending money you might not wish to.

 

As HB says not all graphics chips, including the newer ones, will support this odd 16:10 ratio anyway.

 

My own layout has a 1900x1020 monitor operating from a laptop and I have completely removed the laptop screen which gets in the way as I have a push/pull shelf under the layout for stoarge of the laptop so a screen there is a hindrance. The monitor works fabuloulsy well and is a standard res LG 3D type. Although the 3D is never used of course.

[BagEndJct]

I am encouraged. As mentioned, my laptop has an HDMI port and the spec states "1 × HDMI supporting 1080p signal format" and my understanding is that would imply 1920x1080 I believe.

[Howbi]

You are correct, BEJ.........that is full HD spec.........22in monitors are a convenient size.......usual size is 51cm(20in) wide and 30cm(12in) high...........HB

[Augustus Caesar]

The vast majority of monitors with an HDMI socket will almost certainly have that res of 1900x1080 without a real need to look at the specs.

One word of caution I find in some monitors I have picked up for clients of mine...

The wider the screen on some the narrower they look and this can disappoint as it looks as if the physical loss in height is present and that one has lost that viewing area. This is not always the case and can be from some of the lesser known models that clients have specifically asked me to purchase for them. Stick to the better known models like LG for example which I use most of the time and are extremely good at what they do. Other models are available of course and it is purely your own choice.

Your minimum size would be a 22" but if you can get a 24" then all the better. The res stays the same but gives a larger screen of course... keep in mind some of the screen may be hidden by the bezel of the monitor (frame). Some models advertised at 24" can be as little as, say, 23.6" in reality because of the bezel. Check the specs thoroughly.

 

Specs to consider...

The lower the response time the better: in terms of milliseconds this refreshes the screen at a very fast rate so there is little or no flicker and images redrawing on screen are virtually instant. The standard used to be 5ms but is now as low as 1ms which is super fast. The eye doesn't normally detect this but for those who can suffer from flickering images these rates are fantastic.

Contrast ratio: can be misleading when written in the bumph and usually the higher the number the better e.g. 1,000,000:1 or better

Image brighness: usually noted as 250 cd/m squared but if you can get 500 then great.

Some monitors will have special features such as: ambient light metering modes, flash metering modes, auto shutdown, on screen displays etc.

All should include a standard VGA output with either a DVI-D or HDMI socket added. Most now come with all three.

Power supplies can be a simple plug in to the monitor or a laptop charger type. The latter is better and can be replaced easily or even fixed by yourself if brave enough to do so.

 

Lots to think about and please remember this is advice only and your own consideration should take in other factors too.

[BagEndJct]

That's great information, thank you both.

 

At the moment I am having a problem finding much here in Spain. Very little on amazon.es, not really much more that I can find on amazon.co.uk, alhough, from there, delivery charges would be prohibitive. I'll go and have a chat with my friendly local PC man. My birthday, (for it's going on the wish list) is a couple of months off yet. Time for plenty of research.

Thanks again.

[Augustus Caesar]

Good luck with whichever route you take.

Do let us know how you got on with the task once done and sorted using this very thread to put your reply to.

Often we don't actually get to know the result of any advice given as the user wants to understandably play trains... but it would be great if you could tell us how you got on and what type of choice you made and why.

[BagEndJct]

Yes I will. Promise. I came back to this forum fairly recently when I was asking for advice about reviving my old, rather filthy, layout and, hopefully, provided adequate feedback as I went along! It is ony fair and, even, polite!

 

I have had more thoughts. As I said, I think, my laptop is approaching 5 years old (its arrival "coincided" with my 65th birthday). 5 years later I am now debating replacing it with a touchscreen model. Of course, I could not jusitfy both a touchscreen monitor AND laptop so we'll have to see. Of course a nice large monitor, if it worked well, would be better for Bag End Junction operations but, then there's all the other things I do with my laptop. I've got until October to decide! One thought is to get a larger laptop (my current one is compact, great for travelling). And keep the old one just for our travels. I promise to report back. But, meanwhile, any thoughts on touchscreen laptops would also be appreciated!

[Howbi]

@BEJ............there is a solution that would suit your requirements.........an All-in-One Touchscreen computer........Google this and find several models from HP, Acer & Lenovo.........prices from £350 to £600 so no more than a good laptop.........HB

[96RAF]

My main house pc is an HP 27" all in one, albeit not a touch screen, although these are available also.

 

If it has a big disadvantage it is that any additional backup HDD must be external as the design is short of free space for another one indoors.

 

My only other gripe is it has to be periodically dismantled to clean the processor heat exchangers of the never ending dust that is attracted to it in our climate.

Rob

[Augustus Caesar]

Another huge disadvantage to the all in one is the weight of them... they are invariably heavier than the normal desktop as everything is absolutely condensed into one small place. Where would you place it on the layout too? A monitor can be fixed to a wall but these all in ones cannot generally. A touch screen monitor also would eed to be within reach for a layout so you aren't stretching over track and other scenics etc.

Some newer all in ones are a little lighter but not that much. Given your details above it would be wise, in the short term at least, to go for a widescreen monitor and keep the laptop you have. You said yourself you use it while travelling thus there is a huge benefit clearly with that. You know it works and is sound enough to do what you want with it.

This means if you want a newer laptop later for the rail side you can do that and keep the smaller compact for travelling.

The only thing against you at this point, if I read rightly, is that the laptop would need disconnecting from the larger monitor and layout for use elsewhere. A small price to pay at this point.

If considering laptops the better three makes are Acer, ASUS and Toshiba. These are the most sturdy and better built laptops while most of the others have their faults above these three. Trust me... I repair them for a living. Of course, I always say, it is the users choice and not mine so this is guidance only.

Some all in ones can be tiresome to take apart if you wish to upgrade too with extra memory and as RAF says to clean them out and repaste a processor every six months to a year can also be a pain.

You're gonna be pulling your hair out with all these choices you have make but we are sure you will work out what is best for you and your layout.

[BagEndJct]

Thanks so much for all the advice.

 

The older BEJ is a lot less impulsive in his purchases than used to be the case (a loft full of gadgets had to be ditched when we moved to Spain!) I have lots of time to weigh up these pros and cons and sitting here with laptop while the TV is on, I have just read an article entitled "Why You Shouldn't Buy A Touch-Screen Laptop".

 

Thanks again. 

[Augustus Caesar]

Touchscreen monitors were built with Windows 8 and above in mind although with the right drivers they do work with Win7.

The main thing to consider is not, however, the operating system. That basically is neither here nor there in terms of usage. Let's offer a scenario... you have a laptop or PC with Win8/8.1 on it and you are content to swipe away looking for stuff on screen using the Metro tile offering of that OS... then you want to run not an app but a program (there is a big difference). First off very few main programs work well with touchscreen and can very fiddly depending upon the program being used. An app is built for this kind of thing which is why you find them mostly on tablets and phones. Easy to use and pretty fast to navigate. A full fledged program is built with a completely different aspect in mind altogether.

My clients (not all obviously) have tried using touchscreen and have all come away from them... two reasons: the first I outline above and the second? Dirty fingemarks all over the surface. Although easy enough to keep clean with a micro fibre cloth etc. in an environment wth more than one user they get grubby very quickly. No-one wanted to use them when dirty after other staff had their greasy fingers across the screen. With a single user it would be tedious to keep cleaning.

I am bored stiff with cleaning my phones all the time but they have to be done. While not the main reason for not using the technology there are others. Has anyone ever thought of this one: when using a touchscreen you have to constantly lift your arm to reach the screen in front of you, or slightly above you even, and after a time you get what is often called 'gorilla arm'? This is where it aches beyond the point of being able to lift it anymore so work slows down!

It doesn't happen to everyone but if your arm isn't naturally strong then you are going to suffer with extended usage.

There are still some incompatibilities with Windows 10 and touchscreens which is why there is a dual interface offered for touch and mouse and keyboard. Even Windows 8/8.1 still has problems.

My opinion? I wouldn't bother. The novelty value soon wears off and you will probably find your way to using the good old mouse and keyboard.

Still, that's only an opinion...

[Chrissaf]

My RM Laptop has a touchscreen. To be honest I find most of the time I use the touchpad instead. I might find myself using the touchscreen to operate points, but loco selection and control (small throttles) I favour using the touchpad. Although I do use the touchscreen on the large screen throttle.

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I certainly don't attempt to use the touchscreen on non APP traditional desktop applications (ones that look like Win7) for the reasons AC has given above (icons too small on a 15" Laptop screen).

[BagEndJct]

I think it would be a touchscreen monitor, unless the money goes on something "completely different".

 

I wll report back what happens in October! Thank you, a very interesting discussion. Oh, and I am completely WIndows 10. I thought my ageing laptop was going to struggle. It does take a while to reboot, but I usually Hibernate it so that's not often an issue. Also, updates can take longer but Microsoft seem to have improved the update system and a day to update is no longer the case! More like 10 minutes now, if that.

[Augustus Caesar]

@BEJ specifically

If your laptop is ageing as you say and is a bit slow you may wish to consider having it serviced where all you need done is the dust clearing from the heatsink and copper fins where the heat is discharged from the laptop and also a repaste of your processor (which means cleaning off the original pad (which is pretty usless long term)) that will help dissipate the heat a lot better and protect the processor from burnout.

I've done hundreds of these over the years and this will definitely help the laptop last a good few years longer.

I do my own every 12 months or so and a good tech guy will charge no more than £30 for this.

Worth a consider if the laptop gets hot to the touch on top, warm or mild heat is acceptable, or you feel little or no hot air coming from the area of the heatsink when the fan is working hard.

Perfectly sound and efficient advice for anyone who has a laptop running slow or getting hot - or both.