Tornado Special Edition and TTS Sound Decoder

[Mick67]

Hi. Can anybody provide any information on how to fit the R8108 Hornby TTS Tornado Sound Decoder to the R3098 Tornado Special Edition please.  This is one of the high detail versons of Tornado with the decoder located in the main body of the loco rather than the tender, and there isn't a lot of room in the main chassis for the speaker, at least as far as I can see. The tender has no wiring to the main loco body either.

With the release of Hornby TTS decoders, I can imagine information like this might become more readily available, but at the moment I can't find any, so any tips or pointers to sites containing instructions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Britannia Builder]

Hi Mick

 

I fitted an R8108 TTS decoder to my R1172 Peppercorn A1 'Bon Accord' last week - this seems to have the same innards as your R3098 Tornado - both use service sheet HSS 366c. See https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/adding-tts-to-peppercorn-a1/?p=1 for more details. The decoder will fit into the smokebox and you'll need to extend the speaker wires through to the tender, which has mounting holes for the speaker.

 

Regards, John

[Mick67]

Thanks for your reply John.

 

I guess I was a bit apprehensive about diving in and attempting to fit the decoder in the tender if the loco isn't specifically designed for that purpose, but as you've mentioned the tender itself should have fittings for it, I'll give it a go.

 

When I first took the deocider out of the packagaing and removed the chassis on the loco earlier today, it did look as if there was sufficient wiring for the speaker to be placed in the tender without modification to the decoder.

 

I guess now I need to look into the basics of how to run the wiring from the main body of the loco to the tender as it's not something I've ever attempted before.

 

Thanks again.

[Britannia Builder]

Hi Mick

 

I think the only space for the decoder (assuming that you keep it in the loco) is inside the smokebox, and you'll definitely need to extend the speaker wires to get from there back to the tender. I bought some thin black decoder wire on eBay (the multi-strand is best, more flexible than single strand) together with some thin shrinkwrap to cover the soldered joints. I ran the speaker wires alongside the motor and down through one of the gaps above the pony wheels, under the loco and tender drag beams and up into the tender. Allow enough slack to negotiate curves, but not so much that the wires can catch on points etc.

 

Regards, John

[Mick67]

Thanks John, I've just found the decoder wire you're referring to on ebay, so I'll double-check the distance from decoder socket to tender and buy some as required.

 

I think you've just about covered everything I needed to know in your replies, so it really is very much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Mick

[WilliamDavid]

What gauge wire did you use?

I have completed many conversions but feel a smaller wire would be better than what I used..

[Britannia Builder]

I used 7 strand 0.2mm, outside diameter 1.2mm for the speaker wires. I've also used 7x0.08mm, od 0.6mm for decoder to LED wiring. Both seem satisfactory, and flexible enough for links between loco and tender or between carriages. What size do you use? I'm no expert!

 

Regards, John

[WilliamDavid]

I have converted a number of locos to TTS with the decoder in the loco.

On some I have used the Hornby plug and socket with a replacement 'speaker' tender chassis, and the wires are very thin.

Others I have hardwired through to the tender, the wires being about 1mm diameter.

I would rather it was thinner, as it can get a bit tight in the  loco.

I have just ordered some of this  

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DCC-DECODER-WIRE-ULTRA-FINE-ULTRA-FLEXIBLE-CHOOSE-COLOUR-AND-QUANTITY/172838463331?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=471619196492&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

which is rated at 1.2 amps which should be plenty enough.

[Mick67]

Hi WilliamDavid, could you provide a little more detail on what you mean by the "Hornby plug and socket with a replacement 'speaker' tender chassis".

 

Do you mean you bought a whole new tender for the loco, and if so, how does the info sent from the decoder get through to the main body of the loco?

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood, I'm curious to see if this is an alternative method I could use.

 

Thanks,

Mick

[morairamike]

Maybe wrong but I think he used Hornby part number X9958 or X6113. These are 4 pin plug and socket pre wired so that you can connect the decoder to the speaker in the tender.

[WilliamDavid]

Correct, morairamike.

The plug and socket, and later tender chassis, in effect, convert older versions of A3/A4s to the latest standard.

[Mick67]

Ok, thanks for the info guys. 

 

I think, at least for the moment, I'm going to attempt to extend the connection from the decoder to the speaker, leaving the decoder in the smokebox, and locating the speaker in the tender.

[WilliamDavid]

Ok, thanks for the info guys. 

 

I think, at least for the moment, I'm going to attempt to extend the connection from the decoder to the speaker, leaving the decoder in the smokebox, and locating the speaker in the tender.

I have done a few like this.

Originally to replace the old drawbar with the later plug and socket arrangement to give a more reliable connection for the tender pickups. The two spare wires became useful to connect to a tender mounted speaker.

[37lover]

Maybe wrong but I think he used Hornby part number X9958 or X6113. These are 4 pin plug and socket pre wired so that you can connect the decoder to the speaker in the tender.

I'm reading this thread with interest; is that "or" or "and". Is one a socket and the other the plug or is the X9958 a complete set? I've looked in the Hornby shop and neither looks like a complete set.

[96RAF]

According to the listings they are separate plug and socket but Mike ordered some from Hornby and both contained both, so maybe it was a packaging error.

Rob

[morairamike]

As Rob says I ordered both as the parts list shows them as two differrent items, one a plug on a PCB the other a flylead with a socket on it. However what arrived in both cases was the complete assembly. The X6113 came as the flylead and the pcb plug and the X9958 the flylead and pcb plug PLUS a screw to fix the pcb down with. I bought 3 of each.

[Mick67]

I've finally got round to adding the TTS decoder to my Tornado and it hasn't been the best of starts.

 

I removed the body of the loco and just swapped my old decoder for the new TTS one, and programmed the loco on the programming track.

 

When I put the loco chassis back on the layout, still without the body fitted, and started it up, it was a little jolty, but it went.

 

However, there is no sound at all when I try any of the functions.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm not missing any step to actually activate the sounds - surely they should just work from the off, or am I wrong?

 

I'm wondering if the somewhat jolty behaviour of the loco could be an indication of the problem.

 

If that's indicative of any kind of communication issue between the loco and the decoder (e.g. dirty track, or a problem with the loco itself) would that just stop the sounds from working at all?

 

I'm not totally convinced that's the problem as I still don't get any sound (e.g. whistle etc) when the loco is at a standstill, and I don't think the track is so grubby as to completely interrupt it as other locos are working fine.

 

Another possibility is that it's just a faulty decoder of course, but any suggestions as to what I should try first would be gratefully received.

 

Thanks,

Mick

[Howbi]

Mick..........two simple checks come to mind.........is the decoder fitted the correct way round and check the continuity of the two wires to the speaker.........also, to correct jolty running change CV150 to 1.........HB

[Mick67]

Thanks for the tips HB.  The decoder is definitely in the right way round and I can't see any problems with the wiring to the speaker.

 

I changed CV150 to 1 as you suggested, and also gave the track a bit of a clean, but although the loco now runs more smoothly, there's still no sound whatsoever.

 

I think I'm going to stop faffing about and contact Hornby.

 

Thanks again for your help,

 

Cheers,

Mick

[WilliamDavid]

I would return it. I've had two fail recently, and I can't figure out why. 

The last one, an A4, derailed and the sound did not return when all was reset.

[Mick67]

I would return it. I've had two fail recently, and I can't figure out why. 

The last one, an A4, derailed and the sound did not return when all was reset.

Yeah, I've emailed and asked if there's anything straightforward I can try, and failing that asked how I go about returning it.

[96RAF]

Call them if you can as it is much quicker than their reported email response rate.

Rob

[Mick67]

I emailed last Sunday and they replied on Monday.  I've contacted them a couple of times and never had an issue with their response times.  Taking it to the post office today so I'll see how it goes.

[mike50]

I have been reading this thread with interest - bought a sound decoder for my Railroad Tornado on the day it came out - thought easy when it arrived but no it wasnt.  Correct me if I am wrong - I think I have two options 

1) put the new decoder in the funnel where the current one is / cut the speaker wires and insert a length of new wire and put the speaker into the tender and hope it works 

Or

2) is my other option to purchase the relevant parts to convert my railroad tender to a TTS tender and rewire the decoder through to the motor 

Which will give the best result ?? and is 2) actually feasible ie can you buy all the parts ?? 

and what a pity that H did not warn us all that the retrofit sound was not plug and play - and they could have put a much longer speaker wire so that it would reach into the tender ...

or do I wish too much ??

 

[Phil_Spiegel.]

I too am now opting for a newer Hornby Tender Chassis - which compared to some of the 'older' models I am now converting to TTS will give me a NEM pcket coupling, pickup from ALL wheels, and a pre-designed mounting position for a loudspeaker: by ordering the replacements from a 'spares retailer' - prior to that I was making my own conversions to 4-wire connected tenders using Ebay-sourced 4-way JST-like plug and sockets which come with brightly coloured leads attached  ...and the plug/socket in white is aligned  and therefore also needed painting black after installation.   An improvement over the old 2-contact drawbar method !   Tenders could all be unplugged from the loco, and even interchanged for testing.

I debated whether to leave the original silent decoders in the loco - it would make the addition of cab lighting, firebox glow, and electric marker lights etc easier by not adding to the wires across the gap ... and keeping the load on the Sound Decoder at a minimum .... but by default the Hornby TTS Steam decoders have a 7 second delay before moving off !!! (CV201=70 default) - I havn't experimented with reducing this yet.  

If letting the sound out for the tender via the coal space, then its also a good time to find some real coal dust to glue firmly in place to cover the holes.

This seems deja view at times! - I did it first for my locos with the intial release of Zero-1, and then a few weeks later had to redo them when they changed which way was 'forward'  (no simple CV29 in those days), and then 10-15 years ago when I converted to dcc (mostly silent! - except for low frequency decoder buzz in those days before hf pulse drive - and now as I progress more over to a cacophony of sound capability ....   idling dmus being one of the most basic requirements....