AD-S8fx not functioning with e-link.Please advise

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Murray

I too have had a few quiet point throws from the decoder and mine was caused by the point motor catching the board as they were not inline properly and was causing the problems with my decoder not being able to throw the points properly and at the moment I’m re doing the ones I have had trouble with so make sure that when you change the points by hand first that you can hear the motor ( making like a thud or a clicking noise ) changing over freely to each position which might help the decoder as well I know that I have tried to describe the noise I mean but you should hear a definite click as the point motors change the points and all of the advice from Chris and Ray should have helped you with the programming of the decoder as that’s the way I had programmed my decoder anyway I hope that this helps you as well and to help with your problems Hedley 

[murray_robin]

Dear Hedley,

Thank you for your advice, I think the primary issue is that only point 0001 is programmed effectively despite my efforts to follow the instructions accurately twice, I wonder whether the involvement of RailmasterPro might complicate matters?

Yours Aye

Murray

[St1ngr4y]

Hello again Murray,

A couple of more questions which may help us clear up one or two problems...

 

I'm not sure what you meant by "peco streamline compatible MK11 points" when I asked you about your point motors. I understand what a PL10 point motor is, but you say you only have 1 of these. What type are the other point motors?

When you operate the points using the "momentary" terminals on the ADS8FX, how exactly do you do that?

Please confirm that the main DCC output from the Elink is connected to the DCC input terminals of the ADS8FX.

How many of the ADS8FX ports have you used so far? If there are any you haven't used, how about trying to connect, say, point 0002 to one of those ports?

 

Ray

[Fishmanoz]

Murray, RM ProPack will not complicate matters with the ADS8FX.  The decoder remains a straightforward learn mode decoder programmed by throwing the point while the decoder is in learn mode, as has been described to you already in this thread.

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Murray

another question to go with Ray and Fishy have you connected the ADSF 8X to the frogs on your points as well it’s just trying to exactly find out how you have set up everything including the points and point motors as well as the ProPack as with all of the advice from everyone who has helped you with this issue their has to be something simple that has maybe been overlooked or done that is maybe causing you these problems and headache so slowly start from the beginning ie check all wiring then moving one switch at a time and then using RM for to set that port up and then switch it back again and then do the next one and continue like that until you have done them all and see if that has worked.

however please answer the questions that Ray and Fishy has asked as well as the one about the frog wiring if you are using it or not as all these questions are vital for to find out what is happening with this decoder and your layout as well as RM 

like I say it has to be something  (stupid ) that’s causing you the problems and don’t take that the wrong way as I’m not calling you stupid Hedley 

[96RAF]

Point number three buttons are still skee-whiff, ditto the one in the top left hand corner partially obscured.

 

You may want to take out the elbow and diagonal track pieces that overlay that 003 point area and leave a gap, after all it is just a representation not an actual ground plan.

 

You are also missing some buttons on the points leading to the TT and the points to the left and below point 003 are also going to cause problems due to being too close.

Rob

[St1ngr4y]

Hello Murray,

You haven't answered any of the questions I asked in my post on page 3, so further help cannot be given if we aren't given any information. Don't worry too much about the position of the point buttons for now - the only thing which won't work if they are positioned wrongly is the blue/grey route indicator on the point icon on the diagram. If the configuration details entered when you right-click the red or green point button are correct, then the actual point should work provided the wiring is correct. I have red/green buttons on my layout, configured to an ADS2FX decoder which aren't used to operate a point. The decoder uses the onboard relays to switch on and off sections of the track, which helps to stop trains in the correct position in hidden sidings. So these buttons are standalone, not attached to a point icon at all, and they work fine.

 

Ray

[Chrissaf]

As others have said, Point 3 and the top right point buttons are not yet correctly positioned. Remember what I said about observing the 'snapping' action. When you are dragging the button icon it is the MOUSE cursor you place in the middle of the point before releasing the left mouse button (drag function), not the point button icon.

.

Point address 1 and point address 2 look to be correctly positioned. So at this time I would focus on getting those two point icons to operate your physical 1 & 2 points. If pressing the operating buttons on points 1 & 2 are still not operating your points (you indicated earlier than point 1 was working, but not point 2). Then you probably haven't addressed point 2 on the AD-S8fx correctly yet. We know it is wired correctly, because you say it operated OK when using the manual momentary operation function. Ray gave you a 'step by step' in an earlier reply about configuring the decoder ports.

.

Point 3 may possibly not like having the double track piece (i.e the overhead cross over) being right next the the point, requiring the point button icon to share the same screen space as the track diagonal. It really isn't necessary to have the track displayed on screen completely contiguously without gaps in the track. In fact you don't need any track pieces to show on your screen at all EXCEPT for point track pieces. All the track 'straights, diagonals and angles' are just there for the convenience of us humans. Personally I would delete the overhead diagonal and leave that particular track square with just a single horizontal track piece left displayed. You can always try putting it back AFTER you have got everything working correctly.

.

I am in Kent, so Dorset is too far away from me to visit to set it up for you.

.

Any other takers in the Dorset area willing to visit?

[96RAF]

There is always Team Player remote access as used by HRMS.

My neighbours son uses it all the time over 2 thousand miles to ‘correct’ user induced anomalies by his parents.

Rob

[LMSFan72]

@Murray

In reading through the first page I am not clear if you have used the individual programming switch for each of the ports on the decoder. For each and every port, one at a time, the programming switch must be set to to "SET", the point switched in Railmaster - I normally do it a couple of times - then switched back to "RUN". If it is an ADS8FX then there are 8 switches. They cannot all be done at once as each port will only "remember" the last Railmaster switch.

I would add it is fairly easy to "break" a port on these decoders if re-wiring them when not fully discharged. This might have happened, but, if they are each switching individually with their momentary switch then they are ok. Do they definitely switch both left and right using the momentary switches.

[Fishmanoz]

Murray, ignoring the separate problems with the design of your track layout, that’s now 4-5 people who have told you that you need to separately program each section of your decoder to the point or points you want it to operate, and, without going back to check each of your posts, I think you are yet to confirm to us that you have done it?

[mikejj101]

Murray,

I can't help noticing from you screen shots that you have your loco DCC ID setting 0001 etc ? 

What actual DCC addresses have you got set for the locos ? Why don't you change the displayed address to match the loco DCC ID.

I've got all my locos setup with DCC ID addresses above 40 so I never get confused with point settings on the decoders.

It does seem to me that you are not following to the letter the instructions given by Chris.

I'm in Worcester so it's a bit far to travel or I'd come and help out.

[Fishmanoz]

Mike, an interesting observation.  For a start, the loco addresses must be as shown (1 to whatever, missing default 3) otherwise the RM throttles wouldn’t operate them because RM can only send instruction packets to the addresses in its loco setups.  RM also can’t get confused between loco addresses and accessory/point addresses even if they are the same.  It sends instructions to locos via throttles and points via point buttons and the decoders, whether loco or accessory, respond uniquely.  The only possible confusion I can see would be in the operstor’s head in sorting two sequences of the same numbers for different things.

 

But back to solving Murray’s problem, and I think we are waiting for some feedback from him on what he has done.

[murray_robin]

Dear All,

Thanks for your help. For the time being I plan to hibernate.

I moved to Dcc  Concepts Decoder after  2 months trying to set up several Hornby Accessory Decoders without success.

In due course I plan to start again with a simplified track diagram of 3 points and change at least some of the' Peco Streamline compatible Mk2 motors.

Would anyone recomend a different make of decoder?-Please

I did Ask DCC concepts how to ensure that capacitors were discharged,the advice was to leave them for sometime but not for how long.

Need to attend to other issues for now.

Will send progress report in due course.

Yours Aye

Murray Robinson

[LMSFan72]

I would recommend the latest version of the Dcc concepts if you want to use both address switching and momentary switching and/or have mimic/light indication - the Ads8Sx Compared to the ads8fx they have discharge switches to discharge the capacitors so that you don’t accidentally short them, memory on the contacts so the mimic panel sets at start up, screw terminals not solder pads for the leds and a cover over the electronics. 

[Fishmanoz]

Murray, given you have had problems with both 8249s and ADS series, the common issue seems to be you?

 

8249s have some reliability issues with forgetting their programming, particularly after shorts on the layout, with individual ports dying and the complication of needing to be connected to the programming output of your controller to be programmed and reprogrammed.  However, out of the box they are programmed to addresses 1-4 and so should work points 1-4 without programming, just by connnecting them up correctly.  But having moved away from them, stay away is my advice.

 

DCC Concepts decoders appear from reports on here to be robust and reliable with simple learn mode programming without needing the programming track complication, and are replaced without question if found faulty. I even had a loco decoder replaced after it was blown due to my mistake.  And they have clear and comprehensive documentation.  I’d be sticking with them, or go to AD series if you should go to slow action motors.

[mikejj101]

/media/tinymce_upload/5258741685dd9c4e71e0febfe69ec2d0.jpgQuick reply to your comments Fish regarding the DCC ID numbers of locos. You state that the ID - MUST BE AS SHOWN ! - I disagree with that statement. I've got my DCC ID numbers set to the same as my DCC CV settings for the locos and they all work fine.

[Chrissaf]

Murray, just on a point of clarity. Fishy meant to say 8247 not 8249. The 8249 is a loco decoder not the R8247 Accessory Decoder.

[Fishmanoz]

Thanks Chris, yes that’s what I meant. 

[NormanQ4]

@ mikejj101

The way I read Fishy's comment "(1 to whatever, missing default 3)" would include your loco ID's 0069 and 0099 and any other number you can think up to I believe 9999.

1 to whatever covers the whole range.

[St1ngr4y]

@ mikejj101

 

I didn't understand your original comment on this. I didn't think it was possible to have a DCC Id which was different to the CV1 setting for a loco.

 

Ray

[mikejj101]

I agree with you Ray. It isn't possible to have the loco DCC ID in RM set to one number and the CV1 set to another.

 

Mike

[96RAF]

CV1 is the short address or if flagged by CV29 then CV17 & 18 hold the long address. It is possible for all your locos to have 3 as a short address but to run on their long addresses. Note also the default ‘long’ address after a reset is 100 which is axtually a short address (1 - 127), but it is long as it is in the format 0100

 

RM uses these same numbers to run a loco. That is how DCC works.

 

If you change an address (ID) in RM it will warn you to also change the address in the decoder.

 

Where it gets confusing is you can have a loco and a point apparently using the same address, but as DCC sends a loco signal and an accessory signal the decoder knows if its for loco 1 or point 1. To confuse things even further if you have a Select (not RM) then its loco and points address are set within a strict range (1 - 59 locos and 61 - 99 points).

 

I’m not sure how all this applies to the OP device.

 

Rob

[hedley_reynolds]

Hi Murray 

I can’t understand why you want to change the accessory decoders as I think that at present even if  you did change them would you not still have the same problems with programming them as you have now with both of them?

personally I would now start a new track plan with the least amount of track but just points and then do what Chris and everyone have said and add the point icons onto each point by dragging one of the buttons onto the middle of the point and then immediately let go of the mouse and let the icons automatically go to there positions and then after you have all of your point icons in place and then progam each one individually and then test them individually at the same time and if working go to the next one and do exactly the same each time 

and by doing this it’s going to save you a lot of money because I don’t think that you need to change the decoders as the way you have reported the problems I personally think that you would have the same problems no matter what 

I also have my locos from 1 to 6 at the moment but I also have my decoder ports 1 to 16 and I have had no problems 

also like most of the other members of the forum I too live a very long way from you for me to pop round for to help you and get you up and running as I live in Newcastle Upon Tyne so it’s out of the question for me to come and give you a hand and a cup of coffee 

Hedley 

[96RAF]

Worth reading what is happening with these acc decoders on this forum, seems to be a national sport.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96260-my-cobalt-ads-8fx-is-playing-up/