Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Running my Heljan Lion recently on an analogue track (normally a good runner on DCC) it started to run poorly then after a minute or so gave up entirely. Afterwards no sign of life at all. Would the failure of a decoder result in an immediate stoppage or is a motor failure indicated ?I have removed the body and nothing seems amiss. Also consulted literature. But as my local dealer has just closed down I am a bit flummoxed about what to do. I don't want to send the loco away and possibly face a large bill if the motor is kaput so I am thinking of putting it on ebay as a non-runner or "spares and repares". A pity, as it is an attractive and somewhat rare loco, in excellent boxed condition and has had little use.Could I have a few thoughts on this to help me decide. Thanks for any advice./media/tinymce_upload/8f0467092f43401d1cde61f98c785dd4.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/68b9fb9b57a078efa12e76851a71fc84.JPG/media/tinymce_upload/d5f53b3f583a2306136f60aff30f87c6.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Jimbo.........have you tried it on the DCC track?, and have you removed the decoder, fitted the dummy plug and tried on DC?..........HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 My suggestion as well. Plug in a blanking plate and see if it runs. It's an expensive loco. Bit of a waste of money not getting it running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Maybe the decoder has failed. If you have a Hornby R8249 decoder fitted, that could be the reason as I understand some/many Heljan locos are known to take more power than the basic Hornby decoder can handle. If you have a spare decoder or another loco with a good decoder in it, try swapping them around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Looking at the decoder 8 pin plug (not the decoder board!) top left pin - looks like a dry joint.Unplug it, and resolder the joint.Also try the old PP3 9v battery straight to the motor terminals while the decoder is unplugged, to see if the motor runs. If you try that with the decoder plugged in, you WILL kill it!Also, that purple wire hiding behind the orange and green appears to have bare wires dangling in mid-air. Perhaps they have shorted to that resistor, and killed the chip.If the motor runs, but doesn't when you plug the decoder back in, try a different decoder. £10 or so is easier on the wallet than £150!:-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 Many thanks for your welcome advice(s). I am going to explore the various alternatives rather than just throw in the towel now. Dunkirk approach to a Danish problem. 😛 Will report back on the hopefully happy results. I can "borrow" a decoder from another loco, in the absence of a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 Seems to me to be a strange attitude to abandon a beautiful loco because it stops. Just get it repaired one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 2, 2018 Author Share Posted October 2, 2018 Yes, WTD. You are quite right. I guess I panicked for a while. Now got my thinking a bit more right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I agree about putting the blanking plug in and checking those solder joints. Use a pp3 battery and do the Triangman test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted October 2, 2018 Share Posted October 2, 2018 I have that loco it’s a beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 3, 2018 Author Share Posted October 3, 2018 And the "Kestrel" makes a nice alternative runner. Though they were not contemporary prototypes. "Lion" scrapped in 1963 after a serious generator fire, having in previous months hauled the Paddington -Wolverhampton expresses and later the Eastern Region "Master Cutler", "Sheffield Pullman" and "Yorkshire Pullman" expresses alongside "Falcon" and DP2. I have the "Kestrel" but not the "Falcon.The "Kestrel" was sold to Russia in 1971-- a bit too late to appear in Doctor Zhivago. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Reporting back. Thanks to members' encouragement "LION" is back running strongly as ever. Though without the Directional and Cabin lights as I have fitted a blanking plug and Lion is temporarily on DC. Getting the blanking plug in was a real struggle ! (next week going for an eye-test).I have not thrown the decoder away so would SoT please tell me how to test it acc. to his method ? Thanks. So am feeling very cheerful this morning. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 A further thought. NO LIGHTS - have I put the blanking plug in backwards ?? Advice appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 JimboThe blanking plug generally links 3-pins in 2 opposing corners to make the lights work so it is reversible. It may be that the plug you have is uni-directional so its worth a switch around to see. The only way to check a decoder works is either installing in a known good loco or into a test rig.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 4, 2018 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 Thanks, Rob. I'll switch the plug around (groans). 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 If it is a Hornby decoder send it back to Hornby Customer care for repair/replacement with a covering letter. They are generally very good at sending out new ones.With rgerad to locos from Heljan they do have a higher current draw and I would suggest fitting a Lenz Silver+ 8 pin or a Zimo 600R 8 pin decoder. They both retail at about £20 - not much more than the basic Hornby decoder and have far better running characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 5, 2018 Author Share Posted October 5, 2018 Sultan, thanks for your help. The data about the decoders is most useful. Do you know for sure that both those makes are compatible with the Elite controller ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Jimbo,.When you buy a DCC Ready loco you get a blanking plate that is specifically designed for that loco included in it. The 8 pin ones that you buy as an optional extra (with the 3 corner pins connected) will cover the majority of DCC Ready models. But some DCC Ready models do not provide the diodes necessary to generate the positive return on a main PCB board within the loco. In those scenarios, the blanking plate that the manufacturer provides with the DCC Ready loco provides the diode function..So this might explain why your motor works but the lights do not..These (conceptual) diagrams below give a clue..Diagram 1 - when the positive return is generated externally from the blanking plate on the main loco PCB board/media/tinymce_upload/2d0cbe2019e349ee4238ae3baaeedad0.jpg.Diagram 2 - custom blanking plate that include the diode function on the blanking plate./media/tinymce_upload/930d92325cfc61c5fb9373aafe5f2d22.jpg.As you can see if your loco does not have the diodes on the main loco board and you fit the basic (non diode) blanking plate, the motor works but the lights don't as there is no positive return voltage current path to drive them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 The Elite is NMRA warranted compliant thus if the decoder is also designed compliant (i.e. most well known makes including Lenz who kind of invented DCC, zimo, ESU. Even some of Hattons will work) the two will communicate and more importantly the decoder will sit up and take notice.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Jimbo - just as well you didn't type the title of this post on Jacobs auto-word-changing phone or you could have had your proverbials in the lions den.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 #JimbopuffAs #Raf69 says the Elite is NMRA compliant so any other NMRA compliant decoders such as those manufactured by Lenz and Zimo should work fine. I run an NCE system and have some locos still chipped with Hornby R8215 and R8349 decoders which work OK.I gave up on the Elite/Select years ago as there weretoo many issues with firmware updates and compatibilty with other manufacurers decoders. I understand this is better now though. You will find that decoders from the likes of Lenz, Zimo, TCS and ESU have much finer motor control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted October 10, 2018 Author Share Posted October 10, 2018 Gentlemen, many thanks for all your posts on this. A great deal of work put in, which is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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