Persevering Father Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Hi all, what a wonderful resource and discussion space this is!I'm hoping you can help. My sons got a Hornby Select for Christmas, and at the same time inherited some old locos to 'start the dream layout'. I step forward with soldering iron in hand and claim we can clean up and get these old beauties going. Got them clean and running well on DC first. I began by chipping a newer Mallard that was DCC ready so just plugged in, all working beautifully. I then turned to the favourite loco of one of my sons, the R550 Class 9F 2-10-0 92166... and that's where the problems began.Having cleaned it all up and had it running well, I decided to replace the wiring as it was short and a little worse for wear. I interupted the power supply to the motor (wire connections: old brown rail to red, old black rail to black, old brown motor to orange, old black motor to grey). I also removed the capacitor. The first basic Hornby chip i tried would not programme. The second did programme, but then stopped working. I researched a little more, then came to conclude the chip current rating was too low for the old motor. I then bought a Lenz standard, as I had noted others using the Hornby Select had been using this without issue on older locos. This also failed to programme (8 pulses of the red LED on the select).I now have 3 x £20 decoders that are 'not working presumed dead', and besides the financial impact my kids are getting a bit disillusioned with the trains because of it.I trawled the internet and found various other guides, including Brian Lambert's, and started to wonder if the motor chassis/tender weight was live. The chassis does not have any live feed from the rails/wheel pickups, there are none in the tender since I have the 6 rubber tyres version (http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=32), the chassis is isolated from the rails. However, I found that there was continuity between the chassis and one of the motor pickups, as can also be deduced from images of the reverse of the brush plate. Some have said in a fairly unsubstantiated way 'you need to isolate everything', but if this is really the issue and I'm going to put the effort into doing that, then I'd like to know why this would be a problem and why I should expect it to work.I didn't find the dream guide for dealing with this specific variant of ringfield motor. Is anyone able to help me not disappoint my kids? :-) Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Hi Dad, welcome to the forums and keep up with the persevering. Yes, unfortunately it is absolutely essential to ensure there is no connection between the track and the motor connections. If there is, the decoder will be dead instantly. With Ringfield motors as in the 9F, it is the left hand brush clip that will be the problem. Brian Lambert covers conversion of the 3 types of Ringfield, including isolation of that left hand brush. Check which one you have and do as he says. You’ll also find the service sheet for the motor is No 84 and the loco itself No 91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Refer to Brians website excellent ringfield conversion guide, but usually there will be one of two methods whereby the left hand brush makes contact with the live motor housing, either the brush plate presses on a lug on the housing which you can file off or slip in an insulator like card or plastic, The second method is the brush plate is secured by a metal screw into the housing. In this case the left hand screw is replaced by a nylon one. These screws are easily found from the usual model spares suppliers.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persevering Father Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 Hi bothThanks for taking the time to respond. Perhaps my explanation was so long it masked a critical point - there is no connection between the chassis and rails, none at all (6 rubber tyres and plastic gears between wheels and motor drive, I’ve double checked with a multimeter. it’s true that one of the brushes is connected to the chassis of the motor and tender, but definitely not to the rails and no opportunity to short to the other brush as also tested with the multimeter.I can’t find this situation in Brian’s guides, and can’t see why this situation would frythe decoder... are you able to explain?thanksDad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morairamike Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The tender drive set up should only have TWO (2) rubber tyres. These are fitted in the two grooved wheels on the LEFTHAND side of the tender, FRONT wheel and REAR wheel (the ones with the drive gear behind them), when it is up the right way. The middle two wheel float. The right non floating wheels without tyres are the pick ups on the tender. The left hand side wheels on the loco are the other pick ups and are connected to the motor via the contact on the draw bar. To clarify I will post a picture separately but it will not appear until next week as it has to be approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morairamike Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/1392d4e4de2a1367c4040f841fb84e1d.JPG9F tender with drive wheels showing tyres only on the LHS wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ard Lochan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 When running locos with traction tyres the wheels without tyres pick up tyre deposits from the track, It is very possible that the wheels become coated with a black substance that on first inspection looks like a traction tyre.It would also be very difficult to put traction tyres on a non traction tyre wheel, Regards, Ard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1973 issue loco with early BR tender crest, had 6 traction tyres on the tender wheels. The pickup coming from the loco via wires to the tender and motor faceplate. The loco was permanently coupled to the tender. They aren't the easiest to convert. For starters the motor faceplate is in contact with the chassis casting of the motor. Fixing screws for the faceplate will have to be nylon. There should be no continuity betweek the brushes and the motor casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/57dace12669efcaac70adf91ba6e8984.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/348dd778d39363f0c62c1b7494a46cbe.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The early ringfield drive used on R.861 Evening Star and R.550 Black 9F 92166. Six traction tyres were fitted on the drive unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/a15f91d5ca36f0f8c062d2b2e1a97789.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 This is R.861 9F Evening Star but the mechanism is the same, note the six traction tyres on the power unit. R.550 is exactly the same./media/tinymce_upload/6860af63b199b184b674647c978c1be9.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 It's under restoration, it came in as a total wreck, a lot has been done so far./media/tinymce_upload/c53bed63a506c6e088710fa16c8eace9.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 MR I had no idea Hornby ever made a tender drive loco like that. I thought they were one side of the loco and the other side of the tender. Was that the first tender drive version or a later type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morairamike Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Well you learn something everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 First issue ringfield made by Tri-ang-Hornby and then Hornby (DCM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 This is a 1975 version of the early motor. Little has changed except there are now the normal two traction tyres. Mk2 ringfield. /media/tinymce_upload/e5101c4c89f4376af66b683832baa606.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Later version with plastic faceplate. Early version had open bottom tender chassis and brass faceplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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