2e0dtoeric Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 If the Elite is new, take it back to the shop where you bought it!Likewise the decoders where 'the wires fell off'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 The control response is proportional to the speed that it is rotated. That is perfectly normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Another term is rate dependant. You can turn it slowly forever and get nowhere or fast and get it all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Has anybody experienced this ? I have an Elite contoller and am finding that once I have selected a loco to either contoller 1 or 2 that when starting to rotate the control knob that segmants do not register until the knob has been rotated several time ! Likewise when slowing down. Because of this I have to rotate the knob quite quickly to reach the desired stopping point and whilst doing this the segmants suddenely instead of decreasing suddenly start to increase again !!! Is there anything I can do to rectify this, ie cleaning any of the internals.I am also now looking to buy some more R8249 decoders, will "all the wires fall off" as soon as I take them out of the packet as they did with the first lot I bought? Most of my decoders are retro fit and found it very frustrating when making a connection that another wire brakes off !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDS Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 This is the reason why I prefer to have my Elite set to 14 speed steps, rather than 128. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamDavid Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Well I never.After all these years I never realised that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Never realised what WD........that the control response was proportional or that 14 speed steps gave a coarser control algorithm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerman Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Thankyou for all you respones. I have learned a lot. I have just tried the speed steps setting on 28 and can see the difference so will experiment with the speed settings and acceleration/decelerations as we all know each decoder/loco are all different, particularly with older loco's. My stock mostly Mainline or Airfix so must be some 40+ years old ! I have a couple of "newish" Hornby loco's and have to say they run well. My reason for mentioning the R2849 decoders was because when I bought the Elite of which must be some 5+ years ago i also bought 10 of these decoders. Immediately you opened the packet the purple fly lead just fell out and then trying to "shoe horn" the decoder into these older loco's usualy meant other leads fell off. I now have my own "secret" way of stopping this from happening once the loco/decoder is all working OK !. I did mention this problem at the time on I think on this forum and it appeared that I was certainly not the only person experiencing this. Does anybody know if there has been any modification to these decoders ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Certainly no change to the decoders except maybe the production line is now aware of the wire off problem, but there is always old stock on traders’ shelves. Just be aware if you change your default speed steps (SS) that any TTS decoders you have need 128 SS to work correctly, although they work after a fashion on any setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamDavid Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The control response is proportional to the speed that it is rotated. That is perfectly normal.That the control response is proportional to the speed that it is rotated.I usually only use the knobs when shunting, and erroneously assumed that the 'poor' control was something to do with the Cv3 and Cv4 settings.Is there a reason for this operation not being as controllable a with a dc controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 It's just a matter of getting used to it. It seems very odd at first but soon becomes normal. Slow rotation when shunting gives slow speed increases, which is ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The first thing you would notice physically as a difference, is that with a DC controller knob. The knob has an 'end stop' at each end of the knob rotational travel. The Elite knob being a digital controller has an 'encoder' control. The knob has no physical end stop at either end of the travel, thus it can go round and round in either direction at infinitum..A traditional speed knob with end stops, will typically be made using a resistive potentiometer. The Elite uses a digital encoder. There are a number of different 'encoder' techniques that manufacturers use, but a common type is where the encoder knob will typically spin a number of magnet poles turning past a magnetic sensor, thus the act of turning the knob generates electrical pulses that can be counted. The number of pulses per second are counted to convert to speed. The faster the knob turns then the higher the number of pulses per second that will be generated. This is just a simplistic explanation with no 100% guarantee that this is the exact technique deployed in the Elite, but it will be something similar..Hence it is the speed of rotation that defines the movement in the LCD segment display. Turn the knob fast (or spin it) generates more speed position LCD segments to be illuminated, turning the control knob slowly needs several turns of the knob to light just a single LCD speed segment..By comparison, the Select has a more traditional control knob where the speed is proportional to the actual knob position. If you were to ask yourself, "Why is this?". It is because the Select LCD display does not [iIRC] have a speed segment display in the same way the Elite does. Thus it has to use the actual knob position to indicate the speed that has been set, in the same way that a traditional DC Analogue controller knob does..And as Rog says above, when you understand how it works, I find that I just adapt naturally to the difference in the technology. Again as Rog says, turning the knob slowly gives extremely fine low speed control. You just have to adapt to anticipate the delay. I find that I just look at the illuminated segments on the LCD display and totally ignore how many times I have physically turned the knob.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamDavid Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Thank you for the information, gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummerman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Fascinating stuff, thanks. Like many people I started of with the Select when making the switch to DCC, but soon found its limitations so now have it hooked up to the Elite and I have to say that sometimes when I go to "play trains" I use the Select to start off with, I guess that having been on the old 12v DC system for many years it just seems easier !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 One other advantage of the Elite's encoder control that I forgot to add in my last reply. A traditional control knob that uses a resistive potentiometer track can wear due to the need for the wiper to be in contact with the resistive potentiometer track. The quality of the potentiometer then becomes critical to long term reliability and product longevity..The 'encoder' products on the other hand do not rely on the physical contact of internal parts. A magnet turning past a fixed coil generates a pulse. Since there is no physical contact, component wear is not a long term issue. Except perhaps in the bearings of the control knob spindle (shaft). Thus the controller long term reliability is greatly enhanced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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