walkingthedog Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 If a DC version has directional lighting then surely the DCC version on DC should be the same. Some things you just take for granted. Maybe that’s why it isn’t documented, there is no need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 The thing is WTD, the power running the lights is from a different source for a DC loco versus a DCC. For a DC loco, they are driven by track power and are wired to be polarity sensitive. On DCC, they are driven by the decoder function wires and are isolated from the track. Chris and Rob, I think this tells us something about how direction is detected. I suggest it won’t come from the DCC packet which says forward or reverse. Instead it is most likely a detector on motor output polarity, hence works exactly the same DC or DCC, assuming the lights are correctly set up via CV29 and F0 set to on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 That's what the tests showed (tests actually performed by Rob on my behalf)..Hornby R8249 decoder in an ESU test rig.Write 8 to CV8 to reset it first, to ensure that CV29 DC Operation was enabled.Operated it under DCC control on default DCC Address 003.Sent F0 to turn lights on to confirm working under DCC, then sent F0 again to turn lights off again.Powered down decoder on test rig and replaced ESU test rig DCC Controller input with a DC 9 volt battery source.Directional lights responded to the applied battery polarity..Like me, this was also not what Rob expected to see happen. Rob was as surprised as me.I wonder if all these issues with the train are caused with how I disconnected it from the track / DCC Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I sort of understand that fishy, just surprised Chris and Rob didn’t think the light would still work. I always expected them to, the only difference is on DC you have no control over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I've always understood that directional lights worked on dc. I certainly can't recall any complaints of lights not working on dc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I've always understood that directional lights worked on dc. I certainly can't recall any complaints of lights not working on dc.The question was ‘...do they work on DC when the loco has a decoder fitted...’ as the operator has no way of turning them on so there has to be some electrical bypass to do that and we haven’t worked out yet how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Yes they do Rob. They work just as if the loco was DC. I only have a few DCC fitted locos that I have since added blanking plates and the lights work just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 I just thought I would add:The Bachmann Voyager Lights DID NOT WORK before DCC testing on Hornby Standard Controller, and made a buzzing sound, but WORKED on the R915 Analogue Controller.When I said the lights did not work, I tested the Voyager on both Hornby Standard Controller and R915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 The thing is WTD, the power running the lights is from a different source for a DC loco versus a DCC. For a DC loco, they are driven by track power and are wired to be polarity sensitive. On DCC, they are driven by the decoder function wires and are isolated from the track. Chris and Rob, I think this tells us something about how direction is detected. I suggest it won’t come from the DCC packet which says forward or reverse. Instead it is most likely a detector on motor output polarity, hence works exactly the same DC or DCC, assuming the lights are correctly set up via CV29 and F0 set to on.Are you saying that if I fix the motor issue, the directional lighting will work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2e0dtoeric Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Souty - what buzzed - the controller or the lights?I can't see any way that lights can buzz. (not counting mains-powered fluorescent tubes!) The motor can buzz if it 'sees' 16v AC, the pseudo output of a digital controller, because it is trying to turn in both directions at once, and will quickly burn out - which could mean the decoder is wired up incorrectly!What controller do you mean by 'standard controller'? What's the R number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 STG, apologies if I’ve confused you. My post, addressed to Brian (WTD), Rob (RAF) and Chris, is only an aside to them and does not address your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 It's the blanking plate that provides power to the lights by linking Rt pickup to motor+ & Rear light and Lt pickup to motor- & Front light which is then controlled by the circuit board. Some diesels have a switch on the underside...........HB /media/tinymce_upload/e2067c40745cba72abba3479803ae229.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 Decodedr circuit diagram...........HB /media/tinymce_upload/5732f9eeeca99440f1d4f960387bd306.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 So when a decoder fitted loco is standing on an analogue track the PROM is pre-programmed to accept a change of polarity from the DC controller which in turn switches the polarity to the two motor rails and subsequently the lighting LEDs...........HB PS......I have just been running a Hornby class 56 with Loksound V4 on DC using the ubiquitous R965 controller, the engine sounds work just the same as on DCC (but no other functions of course) and the lights front and rear switch correctly.........HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 Souty - what buzzed - the controller or the lights?What controller do you mean by 'standard controller'? What's the R number?Controller: R8250I get the 'buzz' every time I use any dcc fitted train on the Hornby Standard Controller R8250.In this case, I can here a 'buzz' from every coach on the Voyager if I put my ear close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 How very strange I have never noticed a buzz. Maybe it is something caused by the Hornby controller. I don’t use one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 How very strange I have never noticed a buzz. Maybe it is something caused by the Hornby controller. I don’t use one. The buzz is very faint. The only reason why I probably notice it is because the train was operating right infront of the control section on my layout... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 Something that may catch folk out is Hornby’s future policy to disable DC running as default in their decoders. If your DCC equipped loco won’t respond to DC then check (if you can) that CV29 is set for DC operation. E.G TTS latest decoders with versions v134 and v14 are set for DC running off as default. Obviously there will always be stocks on shop shelves that are ‘new‘ but not at these revisions, the same as we have seen ‘new’ Selects and Elites sold at earlier firmware states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 21, 2019 Author Share Posted May 21, 2019 As you suggested, I brought it to the model railway club who managed to fix some issues with the train.Good News:Power car is now fixed, runs on analogue (there were a few hitches - CV27 did not work)Bad News:Both end coaches' directional lighting does not work on analogue, despite having the same proceedures as the power car.I couldn't test the lights at the model railway club, because, for some reason, the voyager lights only ever worked on Hornby R915 Controller, not on any gaugemaster or other hornby analogue controllers (the lights do not work on Hornby R915 Now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 STG.........on a DC layout with DC controllers the loco lights come on when there is sufficient voltage coming from the controller of any make.......I would suggest that it may be contacts within the loco that feed the lighting circuit are losing contact as in some cases these contacts just touch together when the body is refitted........I have this problem on some DMUs.........HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 21, 2019 Author Share Posted May 21, 2019 STG.........on a DC layout with DC controllers the loco lights come on when there is sufficient voltage coming from the controller of any make.......I would suggest that it may be contacts within the loco that feed the lighting circuit are losing contact as in some cases these contacts just touch together when the body is refitted........I have this problem on some DMUs.........HBNo. the voyager has wires directly connecting the pickups, to the DCC chip, to the bodyshell. The only way of the lights not getting electricity is to pull apart the connection between the chassis and the bodyshell (which are wires and were definitely put back yesterday)By the way I meant CV29 above instead of CV27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbi Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 STG..........you said...there were a few hitches - CV27 did not work.....is this a typo as I have never seen this mentioned, I'm sure it is not useable. Did you mean CV29?.........HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 21, 2019 Author Share Posted May 21, 2019 STG..........you said...there were a few hitches - CV27 did not work.....is this a typo as I have never seen this mentioned, I'm sure it is not useable. Did you mean CV29?.........HBYes, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souty Train Guy Posted May 22, 2019 Author Share Posted May 22, 2019 Does anyone know what the issue with the lights is, since the same process was applied to the power car, which worked?For now though, I might as well run the Voyager but unplug the lighting system from the pickups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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