Class 66 DCC Running Issues

[SuperBeefo]

I recently purchased 5 of the latest batch of class 66 locomotives and separately purchased 5 Hatton’s decoders. 1 - 66783 runs absolutely fine, the other 4 - 66847, 66779, 66789 and 66413 will run analogue but not on DCC. All have programmed as expected and the 4 which will not run are allocated loco ID’s 0066, 0067, 0068 and 0069. The working loco is allocated 0065. When programming I can hear the standard clicking and see the usual slight loco movements but when put on the tracks - nothing. I purchased 4 Hornby decoders in case it was a bad Hattons batch but same problem. I have cleaned my track, cleaned the wheels (although not dirty) but still nothing. I am running on an eLink controller on software version 1.70. Any ideas? Thanks

[Chrissaf]

Will they run on DC Analogue with the decoder fitted. As well as without the decoder and the blanking plug fitted?

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Default decoder configurations support DC Operation. If the loco runs on DC with the blanking plug fitted, but won't run on DC with the decoder fitted. Then that could potentially be indicative of a factory mis-wired 8 pin socket in the loco (not unheard of).

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However, usually this relatively well known mis-wiring issue usually results with the decoder blowing when it is placed on the DCC powered track. The reason being that the mis-wiring crosses the wires going to the motor and the wheel pickup. This doesn't affect the DC operation with a blanking plug fitted, but when a decoder is fitted DCC track voltage is applied to the decoder motor output and this blows the decoder motor output circuit.

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No guarantee that this is actually your issue, but worth checking. You might want to substitute the decoder in your known working model with the four suspects, just to confirm whether they are still working or not.

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If you have a multimeter to check continuity. Then refer to this socket pin-out schematic to see what pins go where so that you can confirm that the factory wiring is correct:

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https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC_Page_1.html#Bookmark8

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Scroll down on the page to the NEM 8 Pin socket drawing

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The suggestions above are probably not applicable if the loco internally has a main PCB with the 8 pin socket directly integrated onto the PCB. The mis-wiring issue is more likely where the 8 pin socket is on flying leads.

[96RAF]

Hatton’s decoders are junk in my opinion . . . They  even put a caveat on their product page saying these may not work with Hornby controllers, which are NMRA warranted.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/62784/hattons_originals_dcr_8pin_harness_8_pin_harness_4_function_1_1amp_decoder_with_back_emf/stockdetail.aspx

 

No further comment.

[SuperBeefo]

Thanks for the detailed reply, much appreciated. I have to admit up front, I am absolutely not expert at this. I’ve got about 70 locos, some with retailer installed decoders, some factory fitted and a fair few I’ve fitted myself. I’ve tended to go for retailer fitting when the locos are particularmy detailed or expensive, to avoid mishaps where detaching the body can be tricky. With the 66’s, as they’re basic models, I decided to do it myself. For all, they run analogue fine with both the blanking plate in and the decoder in, only on my DCC layout do they fail to run, even though they appear to have programmed fine on eLink. Since posting earlier, I also had a retailer fitted DJ Models Class 71 which I’d not got around to programming. I’ve since programmed this (it has a 21 pin - probably Hatton’s decoder fitted) and although that programmed fine, again, it will not work on my layout, but will work analogue on a separate test track I have. This I assume means the issue must be with the eLink software/unit as opposed to the locos or the decoders. All other previously programmed locos seem ok (have tested 8), it all seems to have gone wrong from loco 66 onwards. Any ideas on rebooting it, updating software etc. etc. As indicated earlier, I’m on version 1.70. Historically eLink has occasionally been temperamental but turning on and off has usually solved. Thanks again.

[Chrissaf]

Given Rob's opinion on the Hattons decoders. I am assuming that from now on you will be focusing the solution of your issue using the supplementary Hornby branded decoders you purchased for future tests.

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Extract from Hattons decoder product page on their website:

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I would download and manually install RailMaster version 1.71 (do not uninstall the 1.70 version), just 'Run as administrator' the downloaded installer directly over the top of your installed version. The 1.71 download link is located at the top of the RailMaster forum index page.

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Once 1.71 is installed, then to be sure that all is as it should be. Read through and implement the RM configuration guidelines documented in this 1.70 thread (good for 1.71 as well). Even if you feel you have no eLink communication issues, I still recommend that you implement my recommended .INI file modifications documented in the thread below.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/adding-the-hornby-r8213-dcc-select-controller/?p=1

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Since the locos in question run on DC with the decoder installed. Then that is indicative that:

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1. There is no mis-wiring socket issue in the motor control part of the circuit.
2. That the decoder is functioning at a basic level.
3. That the issue is more likely a communication / configuration issue.

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The locos that are not responding to your new addresses. Have you tried operating them on the default 003 address? It may be that your re-addressing attempts failed to change their addresses and they are still on the default one.

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Whenever you obtain a new 'DCC Fitted' loco or fit a new decoder into a 'DCC Ready' one. It is wise and prudent to confirm that first the loco runs on DC first (this you have done). Then follow that up with a test to confirm that the loco runs on the default 003 address BEFORE you try to make any CV changes to it.

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That way, if the initial 003 address test works, but post configuration doesn't. Then you know that the issue is related to something you have done.

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[SuperBeefo]

Thanks once again for such as comprehensive and helpful reply. I won’t get a chance to investigate further until probably Friday but will post how I get on and fingers crossed will be successful. Really appreciate your help. 

[2e0dtoeric]

Just a thought - try allocating a number lower than 65 to one of the stubborn loco's, see if that kicks it into life.

Maybe there's a silly bug in the system that stops higher numbers being recognized.

[Britannia Builder]

Is it perhaps the problem described in this thread?

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/railmaster-has-limit-on-the-roster-of-64-active-locos/?p=1

 

If so there seems to be a workaround involving placing the locos in smaller groups.

 

Regards, John

[SuperBeefo]

Thanks for all the further responses. I got the software update in. That had been blocked by the renewal of my virus software - a problem I’d had before and relatively easily solved, but being 2 years previous, I’d forgotten the issue! Have tried all the INI file changes as per Chris’ suggestion but to no avail. I ran out of time to look at defaulting back to the original “3“ address, but then spotted John’s reply. Although my last successful loco is numbered 65, I’d skipped I think it was 63, as Railmaster intimates this code could cause problems with accessories, so my active count sits at 64. Will have a look at the grouping solution next and update once I’ve given it a go, probably Friday/weekend.

Thanks again everyone for such great help.

[SuperBeefo]

Quick update; I deleted one loco and reassigned 66789 to it‘s ID and it works fine, so it does appear to be the 64 loco issue. I have also now set up groups to assign all my locos to and will start doing this over the weekend. Again, many thanks for all the help I’ve received in resolving this issue, really appreciated. 

Now I’ve got 4 spare decoders, I’ll just have to get 4 more locos at some point!!!! 

[NormanQ4]

@RAF96

Hatton’s decoders are junk in my opinion . . . They  even put a caveat on their product page saying these may not work with Hornby controllers, which are NMRA warranted.

I wasn't aware of the Hatton's caveat, but I have to say that I have not had any problems with the seven that I have installed.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Some Hattons decoders were in fact DCC Concepts decoders, well some we have are!

 

[SuperBeefo]

Last update; having allocated all the locos to groupings, they are now working, so it must be the 64 loco limit issue. Ironically, 67789 which I switched to a Hornby decoder, was running a bit ropey, so I switched back to the Hattons decoder and it is much improved, although still not perfect, as seems susceptible to any areas where dirt builds on the track and going over points. Have cleaned wheels again and applied oil to relevant touch points, so will see if any further improvement next week. Will raise the 64 loco issue with Once again, thank you all for your help and support.

[walkingthedog]

You can’t have dirt on the track or wheels with DCC.