Chrissaf Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Obviously tender drive if the tender works on its own. The loco is pushed/pulled by the tender so are you saying the loco wheels don't rotate? The loco has no motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 King Henry 6018 just will not run all looks fine but cannot work out problem. Tender works on its own and all connections look fine, but loco dead as a door nail. This dates from early 90s. Please can anyone shed a light ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Have the loco wheels been put back the right way round after the rebuild? If not, there can be a short circuit on some models which would stop it from working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 I missed the bit about the rebuild. As Rog has stated a set of wheels has probably been refitted the wrong way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 You didn't miss that snippet WTD..The OP left the post open in edit mode and added that extra info in a one hour later edit. Look at the time stamps. That last sentence was not there when I moved the post here from the 'Engine Shed' forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Do you have any other locomotives?Can you confirm it is only the King, not the power supply? R8250 power supply cuts out after a short time if power required is higher - thermal cut-out.This would probably cut-out with a locomotive like that mentioned. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Thought I was losing it Chris. 😮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 The power controller is a hornby R912 which works fine with my Intercity 125 and an old 060 but the King does 100% nothing, not even a faint hum... Its wheels I am sure are fitted correctly and the tender as I said works on its own, plus the link from it to the loco have been thoroughly checked , so can somebody kindly tell me where exactly is the problem ? Thanks for reading .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 My bet is still the wheels. Were they removed? Are you saying the tender moves along on its own but stops with the loco attached? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 The loco driving wheels with the plastic insulating bush, usually visible as a black ring around the axle, should all be on the same side. If there are wiper pickups on the loco, with a wire from them to the loco to tender drawbar, the insulated wheels should be on that side of the loco. If there are no wiper pickups on the loco, and the loco to tender drawbar has no wires, and is just screwed to the metal chassis, then the insulated wheels should be on the same side as the tender wheels with the traction tyres on... This all supposed that the loco is the earlier tender drive, where the loco picks up from one rail, and the tender from the other rail... BUT...as the tender moves on its own, then this must be a later model, with pickups on both loco and tender, on both rails? If so...then it is more probable that one set of driving wheels has somehow got the wrong way around...check the insulated driving wheels are all on the same side..... The other possible source of a short circuit is the loco to tender drawbar Connexions... Something touching together.... Photos could assist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Don't think it can be the earlier tender drive if the tender works on its own Sarah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morairamike Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 Take the front bogie off that will remove the chance of those 4 wheels shorting. Now with the tender on the, track put the loco on the track but reversed. Does the tender when commanded to run forward now Push the loco backwards. If so it's the loco main wheels reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 The tender only moves on its own when directly wired to the live track. I am sure its an early 90s version.Yes loco wheels were removed and one of the insulators was partly broken which we then repaired with glue, other insulators appeared ok. But please see below :Sarah para 3 : I see no wiper pickups (whatever they are ) and loco to tender has no separate wires, but when you say insulated wheels should be on same side as traction tyres are you saying that wheels on the other side of loco do not need any insulators ?I have ten detailed pics but do not know what the jpeg image size limit is for posting up here ..And I thought train sets were simple 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 About 2MB per JPG image..See TIP number 8https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Apart from the centre locomotive driving (big 😉) Wheels, which often have the plastic insulators on both sides, one side has the axle in the metal of the wheel, no plastic insulators. The loco chassis without brass pick ups wired to the tender drawbar has the electric current from the track going through the un insulated wheels, then the axles, and so to the chassis block, then to the metal drawbar, and so to the brass pin on the tender...which is wired to the "front" brush of the motor. Often via a red wire. The other brush is connected to the tender chassis, and through the axles and the wheels without traction tyres to the track, thus completing the circuit. If there is a path for the electric current to get from one rail to the other without passing through the motor, this will cause a short circuit. So...are you certain that the repaired insulating bush isn't allowing the axle to touch the metal centre of that wheel at all?Service sheets for the King Class.. this one shews the insulators that go into the axles. They are on both sides of the centre driving wheels./media/tinymce_upload/6663ac7a2dee724b4f291e84a5ad0b68.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/2ac5ed0dcaf4d6246ba809ca5b003204.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/7926f35b620a373bce1d9fade51d9dd3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/600b9f831bfe148076f97e6af26f41a4.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/07768870e5f313bdda92fe1ff9557aea.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/b9bb48ddcb733c91494d69d613af4c0c.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Sarah I have just uploaded 3 images which I thought were saved in drafts but where they are now, I dont know. Yesterday sparks were flying out of one of the loco driving wheels then the controller stopped working.Pretty sure it was the rear nearside wheel. But If you're saying replace any insulators: on which wheel (s) ? My impression is all loco wheels had insulators on, perhaps you can tell me.... thank you very much for your help, I obviously need all I can get ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 If you were to get yourself a cheap ebay multi-meter (less than £8). You could use the resistance scale on it to test for continuity between axles and wheels. Where no insulator is present, then a full 'short circuit' will be measured and where there is a working insulator then the meter resistance reading will display infinite (open circuit)..To be honest, anybody who has an interest in this hobby (due to its electrical nature) should have a multimeter in their tool kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane1707819582 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Sarah I have just uploaded 3 images which I thought were saved in drafts but where they are now, I dont know. Yesterday sparks were flying out of one of the loco driving wheels then the controller stopped working.Pretty sure it was the rear nearside wheel. But If you're saying replace any insulators: on which wheel (s) ? My impression is all loco wheels had insulators on, perhaps you can tell me.... thank you very much for your help, I obviously need all I can get ! The insulated loco wheels will be on the same side as the tyre side of the tender ,the opposite side of the loco all the driving wheels will be connected electrically on to the chassis . is the contact brass clip clean also the sliding contact from the chassis can be troublesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 If you were to get yourself a cheap ebay multi-meter (less than £8). You could use the resistance scale on it to test for continuity between axles and wheels. Where no insulator is present, then a full 'short circuit' will be measured and where there is a working insulator then the meter resistance reading will display infinite (open circuit)..To be honest, anybody who has an interest in this hobby (due to its electrical nature) should have a multimeter in their tool kit.Yes Chris I have an old meter but it needs replacing so have just ordered a new one, but !! I do regret to say that am unsure how to use in this case.. by that I mean I have read what you say above but how will a short circuit and open circuit display on the meter. Its safe to say I am quite clueless, sorry everybody !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Chris : Further to my prev. posts I did load up 3 JPG images, thought they were saved in 'drafts' but have no idea what happened to them .. problem is I'm not only a model rail dunce but also pretty much an IT illiterate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 Subject to the spec of the meter you have purchased. When on the 'resistance' scale, a short circuit will manifest itself as a numerical 'zero' reading (the same as you will get when you touch the two meter probes together). An 'open circuit' will display as an 'infinite' resistance reading (the same display that is shown when the two probes are not touching anything at all)..Could I bring your attention to TIPs 1 to 3 in my forum tips page. Regarding getting your text trapped inside the buff quote box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Thank you Chris , very much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 If you Google - 'How to use a multi-meter' you will get loads of videos to watch.Here is a typical link https://randomnerdtutorials.com/how-to-use-a-multimeter/ Its not rocket science and you will soon get the hang of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivortripod Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 If you Google - 'How to use a multi-meter' you will get loads of videos to watch.Here is a typical link https://randomnerdtutorials.com/how-to-use-a-multimeter/ Its not rocket science and you will soon get the hang of it.Thank you 'Flight' : very much "Per Ardua Ad Astra" as my father would have said 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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